‍The Invisible Americans theme by Bridget St. John

Carol Jenkins

Hello, and thanks so much for joining The Invisible Americans Podcast with Jeff Madrick and Carol Jenkins. We address the travesty of child poverty here.

Jeff Madrick

There are nearly 13 million children living in serious material deprivation in America, and we don't see them. They are our invisible Americans, and we plan to change that.

Carol Jenkins

A couple of words about us. The podcast is based on Jeff's book, Invisible Americans: The Tragic Cost of Child Poverty. He's an economics writer, author of seven and co-author of another four books on the American economy.

Jeff Madrick

Carol is an Emmy-winning journalist, activist, and author, most recently, president of the ERA Coalition working to amend the constitution to include women.

Carol Jenkins

We are longtime colleagues and friends.

The Invisible Americans theme by Bridget St. John

Jeff Madrick 

Today's guests on The Invisible Americans are New York Congressman Dan Goldman, here to talk about the first ever Dads Caucus in Congress. He’s a founding member and also a father of five young children. We also talk with Deborah Koenigsberger, a New York City businesswoman who for nearly 30 years has supported children and women in a shelter for the unhoused.

Carol Jenkins 

We began with Congressman Goldman, who first entered the public arena as lead counsel in the first impeachment trial of former President Trump. He entered congress of the 2022 election, winning the race for Lower Manhattan's 10th district. He joined California Representative Jimmy Gomez in this first-ever Dads Caucus to work on family related issues: paid family leave, the cost of childcare, and the expanded Child Tax Credit.

Thank you so much, Congressman, for being with us today. We are delighted to hear all about the Dads Caucus. You know, what a big smile that brought to everyone's face when they heard when we all got the news that there would be a Dads Caucus.

Congressman Dan Goldman 

Yeah, it's really been received very well. Feels like should have not been such a big deal, frankly, because dads need to pick up the slack and take our fair share of responsibility for families. We are half of the parental unit and need to be advocating for parents and families and children around the country, and especially on some of the critical policy needs for families that, at least from my perspective, make a ton of sense, obviously, for the families, for the children. But perhaps the most persuasive argument is for the economy. And the frustrating part that I see in pushing for programs like the Child Tax Credit, or paid family leave, or affordable childcare more broadly, is that it will promote career opportunities. It will allow parents to stay in their careers, not have to choose between childcare and their careers, and will ultimately benefit the economy far more than any of these programs would cost.

So I'm very proud to be a cofounder of the Dads Caucus so that we can be out there advocating for families and children around the country.

Jeff Madrick 

Yes, Congressman, congratulations on winning your seat, first of all. But second, you had such a broad agenda of social issues. Why did the Child Tax Credit and child support stick out in your mind to the extent that a men's caucus was needed? Didn't demand do this before?

Congressman Dan Goldman 

Advocate for these programs, you mean, and policies?

Jeff Madrick 

Yeah. Uh-huh.

Congressman Dan Goldman

For sure. Individuals did. But I think one of the things that we have found and, you know, part of this is borne out by the fact that we're talking about the Dads Caucus, you know, in a different way than we might be talking individually about any of these policies. And I think that the persuasion of a group is, we’re greater than the sum of our parts. And being able to put together a caucus that has set policy agenda to promote a few policies that are really focused on families has an impact because all too often the spokespeople, and those who push for these policies are mothers and women.

And it's long past time that fathers and men start advocating for these families, for these programs and policies that are so essential to families.

Jeff Madrick 

And do you think that had there been a men's caucus, the Child Tax Credit would have 2021 would have been maintained? Is it possible?

Congressman Dan Goldman 

Very, very hard to use that hindsight and try to figure out what might have had an impact or what might not have. The actual data should certainly have been enough to continue the program without a formalized caucus to promote it. When child poverty is reduced by more than 40% by a simple tax credit, as occurred during the pandemic, the proof is in the pudding. It's right there, laid out for everyone to see.

And it is incredibly frustrating for those of us who are fathers and who are advocating for families that some of my current colleagues, especially on the Republican side of the aisle, don't recognize the benefits to all Americans of programs like the Child Tax Credit, especially. And we're going to be working to focus on some of the more persuasive arguments to try to get that back on track.

Carol Jenkins 

We've had the honor of having Congresswoman DeLauro from Connecticut, who is about to reintroduce, we believe, the American Family Act, which talks about the Child Tax Credit. What's most persuasive?

I think the brush back that we hear about is the cash payments monthly to families, that everyone is eligible. What's most persuasive in your mind to change minds on the other side of the aisle?

Congressman Dan Goldman 

It was a great experiment to test those criticisms while it was in existence. And that is to say that we hear all the time from Republicans who like to slam these programs, that it's a handout, that it's not encouraging people to work. But what it proved to be is incredibly helpful for families. And I don't think that the data supports this idea that it would discourage people from trying to work. It helped them make ends meet, so that they could spend more time -- parents in particular -- getting their families in order and being able to pursue education or professional opportunities that they might not have been able to do if they were much more focused on scrounging just to make, you know, rent or get food or whatever those needs are.

So I certainly understand the concern about discouraging people from working. But I don't think that the data bears that out. And Congresswoman DeLauro is leading the charge on this. And she's just been fabulous about it. As the former chair and current ranking member of the Appropriations Committee, nobody knows this stuff better than she does. So I've been very honored to be able to speak to her about this and start working with her on this and certainly follow her lead.

Jeff Madrick 

The other complaint about those who are opposed to a Child Tax Credit, of course, as you know, is that the parents spend the money on their own needs and desires, from alcohol and drugs to close and so forth. I don't think the evidence bears that out, either. Do you run across that a lot? I know it's a favorite subject of Senator Manchin.

Congressman Dan Goldman 

Yeah. And it's frustrating. It's the similar anecdotal evidence that people use and extrapolate, even when it's not proven out to be anything more than anecdotal. And I am certain that when you look at the breadth of people who received the Child Tax Credit, you will find that well more than 95% used it for productive and important purposes. And the notion that all the people who receive it are, you know, just focused on drugs and alcohol has serious racist overtones, and I think is completely misplaced.

Carol Jenkins 

Congressman, President Biden just issued an executive order about the care economy, which plays into our concern about the nearly 13 million children living in poverty in this country, that the absence of affordable and suitable childcare is a crucial problem. Do you think that the executive order has enough teeth in it to make a difference? What's your view on that?

Congressman Dan Goldman 

I think it can and will make a difference. When you think about what families need and you think about the impact that affordable and available childcare has, it is dramatic because it allows parents to stay in their jobs, to continue to pursue their careers, to have professional success and continue to earn more money. And it also provides really good opportunities for children to get exposure and learning that can be very beneficial to their development. So it's a win-win.

And I would add a third win, which is that it will ultimately help the economy. It will improve outcomes, and it will almost certainly pay for itself and then more. And so I applaud the president for encouraging, if not requiring, companies, especially those who receive federal grants, to require them to provide childcare. It is the right thing to do. It is the economically beneficial thing to do. And it will have a dramatic impact on parents, on children, and on our economy in a very constructive and productive way.

Jeff Madrick 

The evidence, as you well know and as Carol and I discuss often, is that when child poverty is reduced, children are better at school. They're healthier. They go on to have jobs. They don't drop out of high school. All of this you were referring to either directly or indirectly. Why does that not have more impact with the opposition? Do they just not believe it? Is it a prejudice?

Congressman Dan Goldman 

I am incredibly frustrated at the short-sighted nature of my Republican colleagues who are so clearly more interested in helping their donors, their supporters, and organizations like the NRA than they are investing in their constituents. And this is not a blue or red issue. This is children all over the country who would benefit from these programs.

And I think you put the nail on the head, and part of it is that we have to message, and we need to get more data, and we need to be able to aggressively promote that data. I've been involved in early childhood development for quite some time, and there's some data. But it's not as robust as we might like to show that the follow-on impacts of early childhood education and early childhood development, and how that leads to better outcomes and better preparation for kindergarten, which then improves math and English outcomes as you move forward. There's some data, but it's not -- I don't think it's as robust as it could be. And I hope that there are folks who can continue to really invest in that research because I think that is ultimately persuasive. And it may just simply be that we have to figure out a way to go directly to the people in those red districts, and that we can no longer count on them to get objective, proper factual information, and that we have to figure out as Democrats a way of reaching them, not through Fox News, not through the media, but through direct interaction.

Carol Jenkins 

We have, Congressman, the conflagration -- if that is such a word -- of the debt ceiling and a new budget being discussed. If you could give us some clarity on where you see that progressing and what that means for children in the United States of America.

Congressman Dan Goldman 

Well, unfortunately, they are being talked about in the same conversation when they are very separate things.

The debt ceiling is whether we pay the money that we've already committed to spend. The budget is what we will spend in the future. Those are two entirely different things.

But what the Republicans are doing is, they're using the threat of a default on our debt -- which would be catastrophic for not only our economy, but the global economy -- to try to extract spending cuts. Now, what we have seen over the last 30 years in particular, is that Democrats’ economic plans work much better than Republicans’ do, even though there's a lot more spending on Democratic plans than there is on Republican plans, which generally cut.

And what we have seen bear out is that trickle-down economics does not work and that Democratic solutions have more targeted and thoughtful spending, incentivizes development, economic development, and promotes economic benefits over the long run. And so there's sort of two separate arguments and two separate discussions that the Republicans are trying to lump into one. And I think that we need to see what the Republicans ultimately settle on in terms of what their counterproposal is to the President's budget and then figure out a way to move forward without having our country default on our loans.

Unfortunately, the way that the Republicans are going about this is that they insist on spending cuts, rather than any generation of additional revenue, including through tax increases. They insist on maintaining the significant tax cuts for the wealthy, who do not need the tax cuts in the same way that the middle and lower classes do. And they are going to continue to maintain that defense spending cannot be touched.

And if they hold true to their newfound position that they won't touch Social Security and Medicare, what's left is very little of the actual budget. So if there are going to be meaningful cuts, it is going to slash the programs that families need, that children need. And I fear that if they are successful in any way, it will be catastrophic for lower- and middle-class families around the country. We simply cannot allow that to happen. That is what our position is, and we'll see what they propose. They have not laid out in any detail a proposal; they've introduced a new budget yesterday -- well, at least a proposal. We'll see where that goes.

Jeff Madrick 

Do you think they can be stopped by public opinion at all once we see their new proposal?

Congressman Dan Goldman 

Yes, I do. I think we will have to aggressively and persuasively message on it and get the word out to people. But I do think that a combination of the business community being understandably un-trusting of the Republican Party and also would be very adversely impacted by default, or even the threat of a default, as well as an uprising from those who support and benefit from the programs, from education to health care to SNAP to -- the list goes on that will just be devastated.

Carol Jenkins 

A quick question going back to the Dads Caucus, as we finish up. I know you have a busy schedule today. But a quick question about your five children and the Dads Caucus. Did they have any reaction to hearing about you engaging in this way?

Congressman Dan Goldman 

Well, their biggest reaction is, “Please don't make any dad jokes as part of the Dads Caucus.” But I did see there was an article recently that I forwarded to the older ones and talked to my eight-year-old about which says the dad jokes are actually a sign of being a good dad. So they looked at me and rolled their eyes and disagreed vehemently with it.

You know, I think they appreciate that I'm out there advocating for families and for children. And frankly, it's not just, you know, my children that I obviously think a lot about it. But it's setting an example for my children. Four of my five kids are girls, and I want them to grow up expecting that men and their husbands will be co-equal parents and participants in both raising their families and that they have equal opportunity to pursue professional careers. And I think it's important that we dads get out there and advocate for families and show that this is a joint effort between mothers and fathers to raise families and to take care of our children.

Jeff Madrick 

That’s a big evolutionary step.

Congressman Dan Goldman 

In some ways. It's been a long time coming. We've made a lot of improvements over -- you know, since the 1950s. The data bears that out. But there's still a long way to go. I saw an article recently that even in in households where the each of the couple make about the same amount of money, in heterosexual couples, that the woman still bears more responsibility for household chores and child rearing. And so we certainly do need to make sure that our equal opportunity for women translates into the home as well and that we set those expectations.

Carol Jenkins 

Well, Congressman, thank you so much for being with us today. I know that you have a lot to get accomplished. So we're going to release you. But we thank you for your input and for the Dads Caucus and everything else you've done for this country in this democracy.

Congressman Dan Goldman 

Well, thank you. And it's not only great to be with you, but it's really terrific that you continue to focus on the issues and get the word out. I not only believe that this is good politics, as they say, but it's really mostly good policy. And it will -- if we can push for with paid family leave, with universal and affordable childcare, with Child Tax Credit, with incentives for families to be able to continue to pursue their careers, that that will benefit the economy. And that will benefit everybody, not just within that family but the broader society. And so we'll keep pushing that argument, and thank you well, for focusing so much on it.

Jeff Madrick 

Congressman, thank you for your broad and constructive agenda. There's a lot to do, as you know better than I.

Congressman Dan Goldman 

Yep, there's a lot to do. But that's what we were sent to Washington to do, is make sure that we're not only advocating for families, but we're looking at comprehensive reproductive rights, on gun safety, which is another issue that we didn't talk much about, but has such a dramatic impact on our children. It’s now the leading cause of death in our country, guns. It's absolutely atrocious. And these are all things that are very much at the top of my mind, and the top of the Democratic caucus’ mind.

Jeff Madrick 

Thank you.

Carol Jenkins 

Great. Thanks so much. Have a great day.

Congressman Dan Goldman 

Bye-bye.

The Invisible Americans theme by Bridget St. John

Carol Jenkins 

Deborah Koenigsberger is a successful businesswoman in New York City. She owns an upscale designer shop in mid-Manhattan not far, though, from a shelter, where women and children find themselves when they've lost their homes.

Jeff Madrick 

Thirty years ago, she started the Hearts of Gold nonprofit to provide all kinds of support for these women and children, which includes a thrift shop that provides not only financial support but training in retailing for mothers.

Carol Jenkins 

Deborah, thanks so much for being with us today. I heard you on Mayor Adams’ podcast and I said, “Great. She can come on The Invisible Americans podcast next.”

Deborah Koenigsberger 

Yes. Love it. Love it. Thanks for the invitation.

Carol Jenkins 

Well, I should say that since Jeff and I are both former WNBC TV people that we first met when you opened your shop, and it might have been almost 30 years ago.

Deborah Koenigsberger 

No, it's 35 years!

Carol Jenkins 

Thirty-five years ago, and I did a story on your great shop and your great success there. And I'm surprised to find out that the nonprofit that you started, you've been doing that for almost 30 years.

Deborah Koenigsberger 

Yeah, 28 years. This year will be 29 years. Yeah, absolutely. Hearts of Gold.

Carol Jenkins 

Hearts of Gold. And if you could tell us a little bit about how you came to that, being able -- to seeing women who were unhoused and their children and saying, “I can do something about that,” as opposed to many people who just say that's the way the world goes.

Deborah Koenigsberger

I think that, you know, the problem of homelessness is, it's so misunderstood by a lot of people. I was motivated and inspired by Stevie Wonder. Stevie Wonder basically inspires most of the things that are good in my life because I live to the lyrics of his songs.

And so I went to -- in 1994, basically, it's a trifecta. Three things happened. [inaudible] Stevie Wonder, where I listened to every night to his new album that he released called Conversation Peace. And the song that was the motivator was “Take the Time Out.”

Take the time out to touch someone

Reach your arms out and love someone

Be it king or some homeless one

We are one underneath the sun

You know, I’m an immigrant child. I came here as a child from Jamaica when I was 11 years old. So I'm a city girl, and everything that's happening on the city streets I see, right, because you can't help but -- unless you really don't want to, which is another thing.

But I had my business on 23rd Street right on Fifth Avenue. I lived on Madison between 32^nd and 33^rd. My park for my kids was Madison Square Park, which was back then a drug-infested crazy place, which is now the most gorgeous -- you know, it's on the visitors’ must-see tourists --

Carol Jenkins 

Probably thanks to you and your presence, your family’s presence.

Deborah Koenigsberger  

I was buying them when nobody else wanted to rent these retail spaces. So the importance of that is that I crossed that park to get to work every day, and I would stop with my boys, you know, push them in the swings and blah, blah, blah.

Stevie’s song happens. In the park, there's a young woman. I find out later, she's 19 years old. Her daughter's three, and she's sleeping in the park on the earth, on the hard earth. And I have no understanding of this because, you know, I grew up -- I guess I must have been a little bit sheltered because I didn't know shelters was the thing. I didn't know what a shelter was.

I didn't. You know, I never saw homeless people. I grew up in the Bronx. Everybody had a house. You lived in this community. I went to Catholic school. I walked to school, and it was just never something I saw until I moved to the city. And it was way -- back then, it was a lot less, too. It was in the early ‘80s.

All of a sudden, I'm, like, faced with this person. I'm a young mother. I am going to take my children with me to work. And then we're going to go home, to shelter, to home where we have food and furnishings and love and everything that we need. And this girl is sleeping in the park. And so I, you know, I just asked her what her story was.

She basically said that she had been molested in the shelter, and she wasn't going back into shelter. But it was such a jarring thing for me to realize because in my world and my culture and my community, there is no world in which I would ever end up on a park bench or park dirt or anywhere outside in the elements. There's an aunt. There's a grandmother. There's a cousin. There's a couch. There’s something that it's inside and sheltered. So that was hard to understand and digest.

The other thing is Bobbi Brown. So I met Bobbi. We were both at the same resort when both her middle son and my older son were babies. And we just happened to start up a conversation. She mentioned that she was a makeup artist. She was trying to get launched. I told her, of course, I was a stylist. I grew up in business, blah, blah, blah.

And so she says, you know, well, maybe we can do something together because I'm hoping when I get back to New York, something's going to break for me. Cut to six months later, she's been Bergdorf Goodman. And there she went. But she came, visited my store, and we talked about -- she asked me to do a seminar with her.

And what she had been doing prior to her big launch was going to this shelter, providing products and teaching these women, you know, what to do with themselves, how to put themselves together and giving them products. So she said, “Why don't you come do a thing with me. You'll talk to them about what to wear to, you know, go out and be presentable. And I will do my makeup thing.” And so we did that together.

And she had a beauty team. And, you know, we all went in, and it was a great event. And that's how I discovered that shelter was a thing. But not only was it a thing, it was an in-my-backyard thing. So I live at 32^nd. This shelter, it turns out, is on 28th between Madison and 5^th, and my store is on 24^th Street. So, you know, the universe was shouting, you know? And I thought, “Wow, okay.”

So when I go to this shelter, I find out that there are moms and kids who live in the shelter. And I hear about, you know, how you get to a shelter and, you know, domestic violence and all the unfortunate things that happen in people's lives that end, you know, putting them in these positions where they have no other option. So I kind of do that. And then I walk away, and I'm hearing Stevie every day, and Bobbi did another thing at the shelter. And I'm, like, thinking, you know, there's this girl in the park. About two weeks after meeting this young woman, she disappeared. I never saw her again. But she lives inside of my soul. And she motivates me every day. And I believe in know that she made it somehow. Her and her little girl made it out there somewhere, and they're not still in such dire hardship.

Carol Jenkins 

Yeah. And again, Deborah, for Jeff and me the question is, what happened to that three-year-old girl? Concentrating on child poverty? This is such a great story, Deborah, in terms of being so completely struck by what you saw, a mother and her child.

Jeff Madrick 

You have so much energy and you do so many things. I can't quite understand them all. Can you explain what Heart of Gold is and what Thrifty Hog is?

Deborah Koenigsberger 

Yes. So the reason I have so much energy is because I'm an immigrant. And that's what you do. We have to have seven jobs. Otherwise, we're not legit. So I'm a legit immigrant.

Hearts of Gold is a 28-year-old nonprofit that supports homeless moms and their kids in shelters. And we do that through programming, and we use the Thrifty Hog -- Hog being Hearts of Gold -- as a means to give the mom job training experience and also for us to have another way of raising funds to support the charity and the work of the charity. So Hearts of Gold, we adopt shelters. We adopt shelters that house this population moms and kids, and we offer them our portfolio of programs. And they always say yes because, of course, they don't have resources. And then we, you know, we run with what it is that we do.

I will add that the Thrifty Hog is a resale store. We sell men's and women's clothing and accessories. We also sell some small decor items. And we do some housewares and some bric-a-brac. It's a classic thrift store, but very -- incredibly well-curated and beautifully appointed. And you don't think you're in a thrift store when you walk in there. And that's just the kind of environment I wanted for the moms to work in. So we created one.

Jeff Madrick 

Where is that located?

Deborah Koenigsberger 

It's on 25th Street, Seven West 25th between Broadway and Sixth.

Carol Jenkins 

As I'm sure you know, every day, New York City publishes how many people are in New York City shelters. And the day before we're doing this conversation, there are 24,206 children in New York City shelters. That's 14,238 families.

In the work that you've been doing tirelessly one-on-one in training women and, you know, bringing toys and food and things for the kids, what is your sense of how we end this? Twenty-five thousand kids who spent last night, you know, in a New York City shelter somewhere.

Deborah Koenigsberger 

The saddest thing about having to answer this question is that it's no one’s priority. So it doesn't end. And the only way it can end – and until and unless we actually treat this with the care and respect it deserves, this number just will keep rising. And it has been rising. I mean, since I started this, it's kind of a depressing statistic. But, you know, it's like the dike, right? I put my finger in this hole, you know? I've got this. It's the starfish story. I throw one back. But, you know, so I saved one today. And I always have to just remember that because if I don't, I get discouraged. And I feel like you can't do it. There's no impact. It doesn't matter. What you do doesn't matter. And I can't adopt that mindset because it just really stops you.

I think, you know, the people that we elect, that we put in power, the people that we vote for, the people who are in charge of our communities and making the big decisions need to really check themselves. And by that, I mean, you know, put yourself in someone's shoes. I think that every government official should be forced to spend a night in a shelter. You should have to go in at four. And you can't leave till the next morning at nine o'clock. Period.

And you have to go through their nonsense security and abusiveness that they put the families through when you get in to sign in, and you have to go sleep in that room where the roaches are. And you have to not have a burner to make food for yourself or your children. And you have to sleep on a cot that God knows when was the last time anybody changed it or the mattress on it. And you have to imagine your life as this.

But living the reality of that -- because it's just too easy to, you know, a lot of talk that has no results. It's tough stuff. But it's tough stuff for the people who are living it. It is not tough stuff with these politicians in these chatterboxes who just walk around talking about it all day long. It’s like, you will need to create positive impact here. You need to check the programs that you put in place supposedly to help these families because the system is a disaster.

I have one North Star, and my North Star is a mom who comes to me today and says, “Ms. Deb, thank you for that food. Thanks to you, my child is in college. Thanks to you, I got out, and I have a job. And I'm doing okay,” you know? That mom, she just stays right in front of me. And I put on blinders because if I don't, I will stop because it's very hard to see all the rest falling apart around you all the time. And the systems that are put in place and these people who run these shelters and call themselves directors who don't care about families – I deal with the workers in the shelters. You have people working who actually care, but they have no power. And they have no support from the leaders. So it's just all a big mess, and it needs to be untangled. And somebody needs to really put some energy into it. There needs to be, like, a real coalition around how to stop it, how to fix it. Let's go down the canal and plug the holes along the way, one by one by one. But with cement, so they don't open up again.

Jeff Madrick 

Let me ask you this because I think most of us who have not visited such shelters or don't know kids who have been through it -- when you started doing this, what is the thing, the procedure that shocked you most about these homeless shelters?

Deborah Koenigsberger 

So I remember going into -- the first time I went into one of these shelters, and I saw where the moms and the kids were sleeping. Now look, shelter is a beautiful thought, right? A place where they can be saved from domestic violence and craziness. Wonderful.

I find that in a lot of these things, it’s not a holistic thought. So they kind of go halfway and then the rest falls apart. So when I walked into this room, and I saw where this mom was sleeping on the cot and then had a little cot that pulled out from underneath. But the window was -- it was wintertime, and the window couldn't close. And it couldn't close because it had been painted over so many times, so it couldn't close. And they were not allowed to bring in space heaters into the building because it wasn't wired for that.

So this mom was telling me how they don't have blankets, right. So she has this thin little thing that she's covering herself with a child with at night. And I just remember thinking, so basically a handyman -- and I have bribed many supers in my years.

I have gone into buildings and I've said, “I don't care what else is broken. [inaudible] I have $50 for you. Scrape the paint, fix the window, make the -- you know, drain the thing so that the radiator works.” And it just -- it's life transforming, those little things, right?

But the shocking thing to me is that, “Wait, there's a director here. There's a program services person. When you tell them that your window can’t close and you don't have enough heat at night, like, what did they say to you?” And you know, the mom was like, “They don't care. They don't care. They told me the window is broken, so -- they don't have another room to put me in.” The inhumanity of that is what shocked me the most. And I've seen it repeated time and again over these many years, sadly.

Carol Jenkins 

Jeff and I started this podcast. You know, he wrote the book on Invisible Americans. The children living in poverty that, as you say, nobody cares about. Nobody knows that they're there, or if they know that they're there, that's someone else's problem.

You know, I think you're right. You know, we're talking about almost 13 million children, you know, who face food and shelter insecurity and Lord knows what else in the system of poverty. So that's why we're doing this, and you are the, you know, just the perfect example of just do it, right? So how do we -- how do we help you do what you're doing since you seem to have a clear path?

Deborah Koenigsberger 

You know, resources are everything. And, fortunately, I'm a well-connected person. So I'm able to -- I bring everything to bear. You know, a mom calls me. I'm going to find somebody to help me figure out how to help her with her situation. But you need to be able to scale that, right, so that there's a channel that these people can go to that actually get some results.

I fought for two years to get a woman and her three children out of a roach-infested -- when I tell you that I went to her apartment and wrote were teaming out of her dining table, I fought. And the government was paying that guy, upwards of $3,000 a month rent to run this slum that he had this woman living in where the ceiling was falling it that I fought for two years to try to get her out of that apartment. And the system, the program that paid her rent wouldn't come see the apartment. They approved that apartment for her to live in, and they wouldn't go see it and do anything about it.

At a certain point, you need the magic bullet, right? The silver bullet is to be able to get somebody on the phone and go, “You need to come see this now. And you need to stop paying this rent yesterday. And you need to make this landlord do the right thing by this person.” But how to help me do the work is just acknowledging that the work needs to be done.

And I am really desperately trying to figure out how to get the resources I can to these families who need it so that they know that help is out there. That’s one of the problems. One of the problems is that. So we try to get our message through the shelter wall, if you will, to let these families know that we are there and happy to support in any way we can.

Of course, resources are not endless, so we fundraise all the time. And we're always telling people, if you have $5, give it to us because I learned from my immigrant mother how to turn $5 into $15. And I do that every day, twice a day. And no donation is too small.

So the three Ts that most nonprofits live by, we need talent, treasure, and time. So your time -- sometimes we run the thrift store. We need donations to that, as well, clothing and all the items that we sell because that, of course, helps us to keep paying these moms and giving them job training skills. But we also need volunteers to come in to help us sort merchandise. Like, there's inventory, and we need to tag them to get on the floor.

We need support in communities where you can say to someone, you know, a mom who's having a hard time today. “Hey, Carol, I had a mom who lives, you know, not far from you. Think you could grab coffee with her? She's just having a tough day.”

I remember one day, I called a mom. And she was crying so hard. And I was like, “What's going on?” And she said she just left her kids with her neighbor, and she said goodbye to them. And she said, “I was going to kill myself. I'm off to kill myself.” She said, “That day you called me, at that moment, I had left my kids. I was going to kill myself.” And something in what I said to her just made her understand that what she was going to do was going to forever end the life of her two daughters, that her being gone was not the answer for them.

You know, she thought they might have it better. This person will help, but she was so at the end of her everything and understanding her story made me understand how you get there. But I want Hearts of Gold’s work to penetrate these shelters and these programs. And I want to have government entities behind it saying, that, you know -- -- because we'll call the director of the shelter and go, “Hey, we have this to do.” And they’ll go, “Yeah, we don't have staff for that.” Okay, but I don't need your staff. I just need to come in. I'll bring you the food. I'll do the seminar. I'll meet with the moms. I will give them, you know, a one-hour lunch and learn seminar where they can actually learn some skills and do something that will break up their whatever. But the shelters have become so protective because they don't want you in there because they don't want you to see how bad it is, so, you know, you can't get in.

I get it because I know everybody basically, and I, you know, I've been doing this long enough. But if we can just have a system more of transparency, you know, where help can be gotten to these families who need it in different ways – my trying to structure Hearts of Gold so it can be that vehicle, it takes not only village. It takes a city. It takes a country. It takes a whole lot of people.

But a village used to be when we had one problem. We have 13 million problems. You need a continent to make this better. And all of these people out there who are hearing this and caring about how they can help their community, they become a part of that continent of help.

So, you know, I say to everyone, whether you connect with Hearts of Gold or any other entity out there, there are gazillion small nonprofits out there in the world trying to have impact, have positive impact. Your neighbor might need you to buy her milk because she's elderly, and she can't go down to the thing today. You check on her, knock on her door, and see if she's okay. There's so many ways to be humane. You can just do it.

It sounds overwhelming because it is overwhelming. But you don't have to be overwhelmed. One of my favorite things to say is if a bucket is empty, and you put in a drop, you never know if your drop is the one that starts the flow or the one that overflows in. But you can be sure your drop counts because without every drop, that bucket will never fill. So without all of our hearts and our souls invested in wanting something better for another human being, it's hard to change that. But I believe in the human spirit. I believe that people are innately good and that they want to help, and they just don't know how.

Carol Jenkins 

We just want to thank you so much for your work and for sharing your thoughts on this. And, you know, you'll be seeing us as the Hearts of Gold, and we hope many, many, many other people do help out. Thank you so much for everything you do.

Deborah Koenigsberger 

Thank you, thank you, and know that we're moving. We are going to be moving in about two months. But we're staying on the block. But we're going bigger, and we're going to hope to do, you know, more work and hire more moms. So keep watching out for the Thrifty Hog because, you know, we’re there. And can go online and join our mailing list, and we can send you the invitation to the grand opening. Such a pleasure speaking to you both. Thank you for inviting me, and I hope that there was, you know, something came out of that.

Carol Jenkins 

There was a lot a lot came out of that. Thank you so much, Deborah.

Jeff Madrick 

History will judge the nation's decency in various ways, one of them will surely be the well-being of all its children. American neglect of its poor children is both inexplicable and deplorable. By basic measures, it has the highest child poverty rate among rich nations in the world. A generation of careful academic research has shown how damaging this has been to children's cognition, health, nutrition, and future wages. And 2021 Congress and the president adopted an enlightened program that expanded the Child Tax Credit and made it available to almost all children no matter their race, ethnicity, or how little their parents earned. The results were stunning, cutting the poverty rate by half. But Congress refused to renew the program. In coming months, this podcast will examine the future of the Child Tax Credit and other key policies to protect children from the destructiveness of poverty. We are dedicated to restoring a bright and optimistic future for all children in this land long celebrated for equal opportunity.

Carol Jenkins 

Our appreciation to our guests, Congressman Dan Goldman and Deborah Koenigsberger of the Hearts of Gold nonprofit, for their work on behalf of children in poverty. And thanks so much to you for listening.a

You can find the full transcript, the show notes, guests bios, and research on our website, theinvisibleamericans.com. And coming soon, our blog and newsletter. That's www.theinvisibleamericans.com.

The Invisible Americans theme by Bridget St. John

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