Episode 304: Using the Arts as a Spotlight: The Care Economy and the Stories of the Unhoused

Carol Jenkins: Hello and thanks so much for joining the Invisible Americans podcast with Jeff Madrick and Carol Jenkins. We address the travesty of child poverty here.

Jeff Madrick: There are nearly 13 million children living in serious material deprivation in America and we don't see them. They are our invisible Americans and we plan to change that.

Carol Jenkins: A couple of words about us. The podcast is based on Jeff's book, Invisible Americans, The Tragic Cost of Child Poverty. He's an economics writer, author of seven and co-author of another four books on the American economy.

Jeff Madrick: And Carol is an Emmy-winning journalist, activist and author, most recently president of the ERA Coalition, working to amend the Constitution to include women.

Carol Jenkins: And we are longtime colleagues and friends. In this episode, we consider the arts, film, and theater. How can they lift up the crisis of poverty, particularly child poverty? First, we talk with care advocate Ai-jen Poo and Tony-winning actor Sarah Jones about Sarah's one-woman show, The Cost of Not Caring. Then we talk with actor Beverly D'Angelo and executive producer Stephan Dweck about their upcoming feature film on homelessness. Ai-jen Poo is founder of the National Domestic Workers Alliance and Caring Across Generations, two major organizations reshaping the rights of essential care workers and those they care for. She and actor Sarah Jones, who won a Tony for her Broadway one-woman show Bridge and Tunnel, collaborated on a show about care that traveled through several cities, and we hope it's on its way to Broadway. I am so excited to have two of my babies. I've been following your career since you started them. And I am so proud of everything that you've accomplished. Just extraordinary, extraordinary work. And for me to learn that you two are working together was like whipped cream on top of the sun. Just terrific. So, Ai-jen, start and tell me how this came about. What was the spark that said that you two geniuses should work together?

Ai-jen Poo: Well, first of all, this is so special because you are each duo and have been of mine for decades. And so much of what we have to build on today in the women's movement, and especially when it comes to media, is because of you. So I get to have a clue on your podcast. So thank you so much for everything, Carol. We love you so much. And I also have Sarah Jones, which is why I'm so excited to be on this podcast today. Sarah and I have been friends for maybe about two decades. And this project came about because I have been working on organizing caregivers and women who work in the care economy and women who provide care for their family members, loved ones, and trying to build a movement that connects us all because caregiving is this issue that really does connect us all. And so whether it's the need for child care or whether you need to take time off from work but you can't because you don't have paid family medical leave, or you have an aging or disabled loved one that you're worried about how they're going to get the support they need to live with dignity, these issues touch so many of us because we in this country haven't built the kind of systems or the kind of culture to really support caregiving.

And so that's what I've been working on for the last two decades, is to ask, pay, leave, and make child care affordable, and to make sure that the workers who help us care for the people we love as their profession every single day, that they can have good jobs with living wages and real opportunity and support for their families too. And Sarah was a main speaker at the first big conference after the pandemic to really bring the care movement together. And we brought Sarah in to inspire us with her storytelling. And her characters came through and they organically had these really powerful care stories. And after that event, we really talked about how we could take their stories and our movement to the next level together, and that is what we're cooking up.

Carol Jenkins: And Sarah, you're a master storyteller. How did you feel about Ai-jen saying, okay, let's take this on the road?

Sarah Jones: Well, first of all, I have to echo Ai-jen that I grew up on you, Carol Jenkins. If there's anything good that I'm doing, as Ai-jen said, you're in my DNA. I'm so grateful. for the ways you've covered what matters for decades. And now Ai-jen and I have come together to cover something that has mattered since the dawn of time, which is how care is at the center of every other story I've ever told. You've both known me since I was on Broadway doing characters. And even back then, when I look at you know, my first shows, every one of them has threads of care stories woven throughout each character's life. So in some ways, this is, you know, an obvious fit. And I'm just so glad that it came together with Ai-jen's work with Caring Across Generations, building this, you know, really powerful coalition of, frankly, all of us, right? Because as Ai-jen talks about the women who do this work professionally, the caregivers who do it without being paid, which is another huge, important conversation. And then all of us who need care or will need care, that's everybody. That's it. You know what I mean? There's no life that isn't touched by this and no story that isn't imbued with whether it's the care that we give or the care that we lack. That's what's at the heart of everything. So that's why I'm so excited about this.

Carol Jenkins: And Aisha, as you so eloquently put it, your work revolves around the families who, for instance, need child care and the people who are going to do the caring for those children. And you testified before a Senate panel recently. Come on people we have to figure out a way and next year when there is a look again a close look at our taxation There may be a possibility of changing that but speak to us about the children that that you were working for Well, we have in our country 33 million families who are raising young children children under the age of five and

Ai-jen Poo: It is a real struggle for those families because you as a working mom or a working parent, so many of your listeners will understand immediately what I'm talking about when I say that the math just isn't mathing. We have really, really costly child care and half of the country, almost half of the country lives in what's called a child care desert, where even if you can afford it, you can't get access to the quality child care that your child needs and deserves. And so we just have a big problem in this country because we haven't invested in the programs, the policies, and the workforce that would enable us to have access to affordable quality child care and for the workers who do that work to be able to do it with pride and support their families too.

And that is what we've been working on in Congress, and we have a big opportunity next year when we're going to be taking a look at the tax law that Trump put into place when he was in the White House that transferred trillions of dollars of wealth to corporations and billionaires and out of our revenue systems to support programs like child care that we really need. And so a lot of those tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations are going to be expiring, so we get a chance to say, hey, wait, no, The wealthy should pay their fair share so that we can have essential programs like affordable child care or paid family leave or senior care for the growing older population in this country. And I think it's totally possible. It's really a simple policy choice that we can make as a country. I mean, probably not simple. But it is a policy choice that we can make as a country and one that should really bring us together. These issues are not partisan issues. Every single person will need care or will provide it and should have support in the United States of America to do so.

Carol Jenkins: And Sarah, your thoughts on this and how are you received when you present your characters? I love every single one of your characters.

Sarah Jones: They love you. I, it's so funny, you know, I want to, I, Jen knows them so well, you know them so well, but for your listeners, my characters come from my real family background. I have lots of caregivers in my family. I think we all have that story. And mine happened to also be a reflection of America, kind of a multicultural and also quite imperfect and in need of, you know, focusing on these priorities. Right. But I'm thinking of one character in particular.

Lorraine: Oh, I'd be a Carol. It's me, Lorraine. And I know you called Ai-jen and Sarah your babies. I consider you a baby. I'm significantly older than you are, but I know that these conversations about care, Ai-jen is so powerful at talking about the policies. And, you know, these are policies that touch real people. So when we do the performances, we want people to see themselves, their elders, their, you know, their seniors who need care.

Sarah Jones: So that's, you know, the idea is for me to embody as many of those voices as I can. And I wanted to speak to the piece about childhood, right? This work that you're doing, Carol, and the work that Ai-jen does. My storytelling is about reminding us that, as Ai-jen said, this is not a partisan issue. This is a human, if you are in America, You know, the other project that I got to do actually with IGEN, I have a podcast myself called America Who Hurt You, and it speaks to childhood. It speaks to where are we invisible Americans from the time we're little, not getting the care we need, the poverty issues that you talk about that, you know, ironically, some of the people who do the care that we need the most have to do that on poverty wages. It's totally backwards. whether it's the creative piece and making sure that audiences feel touched in their hearts, whether it's Ai-jen going and speaking, you know, to the people who can actually make the policy changes. This is a multi-pronged approach and we want to bring the creativity and the storytelling and the heart center that goes along with real concrete policy change next year. God willing, as Lorraine would say.

Carol Jenkins: And Ai-jen, talk to us about the poverty level of so many. You make progress. You know, I think I saw when I saw you described in your bio as a labor leader. I love that because the whole union thing, talk to us about

Ai-jen Poo: In our country, 9 million workers who work in the care economy and they are overwhelmingly women, more than 80% women and majority women of color. Black, brown, immigrant, API, native women who are Get up every day and make sure that our loved ones are safe and can live with dignity. And my gosh, what more important role and job is there in society, but yet most care workers earn less than $12 per hour. And that is the great travesty. The median income for a home care worker in our country today is $22,000 per year. And I have traveled all over this country and I really don't know if there's a place that I visited where you can actually raise a family on $22,000 per year. This is a system because as a country we haven't prioritized investing in care. We have a system where families can't afford to pay more and workers can't afford to be paid less. The only thing we were out of this actually is to invent, to make sure we have fair taxes so that we have the revenue we need to invest in these programs and to prioritize it as a country. And when we do, it will just be such a win-win because if we make these jobs better jobs, That'll benefit their families, but that'll also benefit all of the families who rely on the care that they provide. It'll benefit the kids who get good care. It'll benefit the older adults and people with disabilities who need that support to just have basic dignity and agency in life. And everybody wins.

Carol Jenkins: Everybody wins. Everybody wins. Everybody wins. And Sarah, you know, the show that you are bringing to Broadway will, and to the movie theaters and every place, will help lift this concept, I think, that using art for these activists' needs that we have is so essential.

Sarah Jones: Well your lips to the care God's ears Carol We hope to take it all the places that people need this message right and I think to reinforce the most basic human connection right like I'm thinking of another character who May be in the show. We're still developing it and it's called the cost of not caring But someone who is a professional caregiver. I'll let her speak. I I'm so happy to be here. I'm a little bit nervous, but I want to say, as Ai-jen was speaking about being a professional caregiver and how really it is a calling. This is a beautiful way to contribute to the United States' future. When they say the children are our future, I am raising the children. I am doing early education. I am doing the kind of support and loving care that makes sure that we have healthy, thriving citizens in our country. So if we don't have that, we see what can happen when we go off the rails, right? So really, at a certain point, we need everybody's voice who is part of this care economy to be lifted up. And I think having her, you know, someone who's based loosely on my real relatives, these are personal stories for so many of us. care, or the lack thereof, being centered in this way, I think it will hopefully give everyone more motivation to course correct as a country, and that's our goal.

Carol Jenkins: Give us a closing directive to our listeners. What do you want them to do? Sarah, you start, and then Ai-jen, I'll let you close.

Sarah Jones: Well, I want people to vote. I want people to vote, not just for presidential elections, but down ballot. Who are the people who are putting their energy and care behind care? This care economy literally touches everyone. It really is win-win. I don't think there's such an expression as win-win-win, but we need the WWW. This is for everyone. And so staying politically engaged, you know, leaning on your representatives who have the power to say, we're going to make sure that this issue is top of mind. And then I would say, talk about your care stories at your kitchen table. You know, think back, oh my goodness, I had a babysitter who was a formative influence on my life. you know, when my mom had to go off to work and I had to be a latchkey kid, what difference would it have made if we actually had affordable care, you know, taking care of us as kids instead of becoming parentified adults, which too many children, you know, end up being. So those are the kinds of things. Get into the conversation. Remember, you're a stakeholder in this and then follow caring across and the cost of not caring as we grow. Right, Ai-jen.

Ai-jen Poo: Well, Claire just covered so much, but I think I'll just double-click on this idea of sharing your care story. One of the things that has really kept us from making this a national priority is the fact that it's not been a national conversation. And it's been a conversation at our kitchen tables or behind closed doors, but it really does need to be a conversation about what we as a country need and how fundamental it is to the values and to the goals and the dreams and the aspirations of communities in every part of this country to be able to take care of the people we love. It's so simple. And if it stays a personal, individual conversation behind closed doors, we're just not going to get there as a country. And it's time. It's time for it to be our future as a country.

Carol Jenkins: Thank you so much, both of you. I love you both. Thank you. Keep up the work. You set the bar so high for all the rest of us. We're going to take your directives. We're going to do exactly as you say. Thank you both for being here.

Sarah Jones: Love you, Carol. Thank you so much. Love you so much, Carol.

Ai-jen Poo: Love you too, Sarah. Love you, Ai-jen. See you soon.

Carol Jenkins: Invisible Americans got a preview of the feature film No Address, starring singer Ashanti, Billy Baldwin, and Beverly D'Angelo. It's about a courageous band of unhoused people of all ages and circumstances, including a foster child who has aged out of care. They form a community. The film project, headed by Robert Craig, includes a documentary and a percentage of the profits shared by organizations supporting the unsheltered. It opens in February of 2025. We talked with executive producer Stephan Dweck and iconic actress Beverly D'Angelo about her research on the streets of L.A. for the role she plays, that of an aging actress who could no longer remember her lines and eventually found herself unhoused. Beverly and Stephan, thank you so much for being with us today. And thank you for this project. It's amazing. It's a feature film. It's a novel. It's a documentary. It's a study guide. And it's a support for nonprofits doing the work of working with the unhoused. It's just an incredibly big, big project. Beverly, I want to start with you because in reading about the work that you did for this character, tell us a little bit about that.

Beverly D’Angelo: I knew Julia Verden as a producer. I hadn't talked to her for years, and she called me. and said she was doing this project, and she sent me a script, and it was kind of like these separate stories that were like kind of vignettes that kind of played out. I was going into like a 7-Eleven, and there was this guy, and I recognized him. I've given him money from time to time, but he was there. I thought, well, why don't I just talk to him? What I found in Quick Succession was that the anonymity and the lack of enfranchisement that all those individuals you see and kind of don't see but truly feel the impact of being unseen and unheard and he opened to me and that was I just thought okay this is what I'm going to do every day and I did and found out really alarming things in Los Angeles. I was getting a passport. There was a woman on the street and she was sitting there in front of a speaker and there was a guy who was kind of circling around. He had all these like sores on his body that were obviously from meth and tried offering a cigarette. No. She's very, very shut down. But what I finally did find out after about an hour of piecing together what he was saying and what she would and would not say was that her story was she'd gone on, she'd been injured four times on two tours in Afghanistan and became addicted to the medication that they gave her. And they kicked her out as an addict. So she'd fall in there, but I heard really dark, dark stuff about child trafficking. And these are from the people that are actually living there. But what I saw the commonality was mental illness that was either situational because of the circumstances or was something that was brought into it like PTSD or just, you know, emotional issues. Anybody can come to that. or can be born like that. Anyway, that was so pervasive to me that I went to Julie and I said, you know, you've got this character written kind of vaguely. She's an actress who forgot her lines. I want her to personify that, that thread of mental illness. And when I gave her the story about the vet, the woman, she folded that into Ashanti's a bit. I know that she did. as far as, you know, like explaining where these people came from and how they got there. But that was honestly the most informative thing. But it was a very, very meaningful experience, and everybody involved with it really had their eyes on that focus of, you know, we want to do something.

Carol Jenkins: And they have a fine one, as I may add, as well. I'm a huge fan of the work that you do and the research that you've done for this part.

Beverly D’Angelo: It really moved me. I was just very locked into what I had seen as this dissociation. And it's not a lack of trust. It's even beyond a lack of trust. It's just, I'm not here.

Carol Jenkins: Stephan, tell us about the story, the parts that I've seen that actually are true. We know kids that this has happened to, you know, when they age out of foster care, they're thrown onto the streets, you know, and that's how your film starts.

Stephan Dweck: This is Robert Craig's vision. Let me give him all the credit. And I'm one of the executive producers, there are several, but it really is his vision. He's one of the more decent human beings, I don't know if you can echo that, that I've met in the film business. He actually wants to make a difference. And this project, I came to it late in the game. I came to it working with Ashanti, and the script came across my desk. We were looking to do something a little more gritty. in our film world, this is how it kind of came together. Moscow, Shanghai, London, New York, and every city that we've been to, there are homeless people all over the world. So when this script came across my desk, I'm part of her management team, and it talked about individuals, normal individuals who fall into homelessness, and by circumstances outside of their control, and that Besides it being a good story, that we could actually say something positive about this and make a difference. Put a face on it. Exactly. Put a face and put a heart in it. When we got into the movie, there are like 1.3 million people, according to the White House, adults on the streets. And so how do we make a difference? How does somebody who has broken through to celebrity as a singer make a difference? And this was an opportunity, visually, to do that.

Beverly D’Angelo: Audience, too. I mean, it's such a noble thing of you guys to, for Ashanti, for Yousef, and for everybody, to bring her audience to that level of awareness that we're talking about in the film. Then when you came on board in this capacity with your devotion, and your pure motivation, too. Sure, thank you. That's when it caught more fire for me. It took me further, you know? because I could understand better the aspirational qualities of the project.

Carol Jenkins: Oh, thank you so much. And so it is several people who find themselves unhoused as they come together. One, the foster kid. And Beverly, develop that character a little bit for us. I know you've added the mental health issue, but you're an actress. You play an actress who no longer can remember her lines, and as a part of that becomes gradually more impoverished.

Beverly D’Angelo: She's one of these characters that's there every day. Someone that's there and not there. Someone that's seen and not seen. Someone that kind of wafts in and wafts out. Because that's kind of the nature of mental illness too in the homeless. It's like the instinct and the daily and the thing that they're doing calls for immediacy of instinct and decisions. Calls for immediate decisions at any given moment. The decisions can be as broad as, do I spend a dollar getting some food or do I spend a dollar so I can stay high all day?

Carol Jenkins: And Ashanti plays the vet who is addicted. And it's this community that forms to maintain the space that they have staked out on the earth as theirs, that a corrupt businessman is trying to take away from them. They find common purpose. And I haven't seen the film yet, but I'm assuming they keep it.

Stephan Dweck: She plays a character who has an addiction, but also PTSD. She's got issues. She's a vet. At the end of the day, this film is about family. They come together, and you see that. At least I saw it on set. And it's about that. They form a family to survive on the street.

Carol Jenkins: We have a partner of ours that we've interviewed and has done a lot of programs with us. He and his mother and two siblings lived in the New York City subway system for years. I mean, he made it out, became a lawyer and an advocate at the White House. That's unusual.

Beverly D’Angelo: That's fantastic, Carol.

Carol Jenkins: Talk to us about the fundraising aspect of this, when I saw, so there's the feature film, and then there is a documentary, and then there's the possibility of all of these non-profit organizations, hundreds of them that are working with this project, with the capacity to, because I think the profits are going to the non-profits, and support, and the availability of doing screenings and all. So this is really a movement that has been created around this film.

Stephan Dweck: Some of the organizations that the movie is involved with are the Salvation Army, Harbor Lights Program in San Francisco, Helping Up Rescue Mission, teamed up with John Hopkins, the, um, Beverly might be familiar with the, is it the Heaven for Hope in San Antonio?

Beverly D’Angelo: Well, I'm curious about the man you spoke of just now, Carol. Because what I quickly came to see, because I talked about, I don't know, I think I was up to like 30 people. And what I came to see quickly was within a very short period of time, the sense of time evaporated. And I thought, it's such a weird thing. And I thought, is this because I'm talking to people who are so far out of the loop of what my day to day life is? What is it? What is it? What is it? And by that fourth person, I knew what it was. When you have a home, you have a sense of going to someplace and coming from someplace. Now, psychologically, that feeling of coming from someplace, that can be your upbringing, whether it's good or bad, you have a sense of that. But when you don't have a home, When you don't have a place where you can put stuff, whether you've got a lunchbox and a sandwich or some clothes, when you don't have a place that you go from out into the world to get whatever you're going to need to make it through the day, you don't have a place that you can feel is safe in your space. You don't have, you're not in time. There's no parameters on your day. Going back to that vet, when I was talking to her, she started to get really feisty, because it turned out that she had a kid, and the kid got taken by the dad, and then they started talking about the cartel coming in, and there's some sex trafficking going on. She started to get really freaked out. She lunges at me, then she runs away. And the guy who was with her ran after her, and he said, you know, she does this all the time. And it was just like really honestly in mid-conversation. And that's how every conversation went. At any minute, it could just go anywhere because there's no parameters. I am very much a proponent of housing first.

Carol Jenkins: I think it's fascinating. And a lot, one of the more successful ways of approaching it is housing with mental health support. Yeah, absolutely.

Stephan Dweck: It should happen simultaneously. Don't you think? Right. You need the housing, but you also need the treatment for mental illness and drug addiction.

Beverly D’Angelo: Of course you do. Of course you do. But, well, I think we all need to understand that there has to be a motivation there. And for a human being to say, I'm going to kick this drug because then I'll have a roof over my head. You've got to access that part of the human being who wants that. Right. And so many people have given up. I go back to, like, just give them a safe place first. Meaning, by first, it can be that morning. But get them in there. Get access to them. Because I just feel that the access to that core human is difficult to achieve if it comes with requirements. And honestly, Stephane, I'm talking about, like, same day. Right, right, right. But my feeling is, in order to address the problem, we have to provide a safe space for those people to come to.

Carol Jenkins: Stephan, talk to us about the opening, what you hope will happen in this country because of all of the elements of this film, not only the film, but the documentary and the novel that's been produced, the study guide, the working with all of these non-profits. you know, who may benefit financially, but certainly from lifting up the work that they do.

Stephan Dweck: I don't care if this movie makes one cent. This is not about the money. Now, Robert Craigmay, and so many other people involved with this, I want this… Prior to me and Ashanti, or team Ashanti getting involved with this, we had a very vague idea about this problem. So this is about awareness. This is about awareness, then action. Every day here in Brooklyn, Williamsburg, I see homeless people. And they're invisible to everyone. They were invisible to me. And I hope this movie changes that. I hope all of this stuff changes that. You know, that people can make a difference in a small way. And even if all the organizations that I mentioned may not be the vehicle that you volunteer or help out, there are other ways to make an impact and to make a difference. And so I hope this movie creates a tremendous amount of awareness that this is an issue, and it's not going away. The White House put out a report this year, they're talking about in 10 years, there's going to be 3 million people on the street. So, we got to deal with this, and that brings a lot of other problems. So, you just can't stick your head in the ground. You just can't live in a bubble or entertainment bubble. I hope this movie creates awareness on a global scale. Let's just start with the United States or maybe the major urban centers, but We need that because it really hasn't been spoken to.

Beverly D’Angelo: My hope. is that this film is viewed and experienced, you know, forget the content, right? My hope is that this isn't seen in terms of, is this the greatest filmmaking ever done? Is this the greatest performance ever done? My hope is that there's enough familiarity in the actors, in the settings, to allow anybody who sees it to identify just enough to get them thinking. Even if they're thinking, well, I wouldn't do that. Or if they're thinking, well, is that really possible? Just to shine a light on a situation and in that way have the art serve it. That's what my hope is. My hope that it's regarded as insight, using actors, speaking words, doing our job to touch something in the audience viewers so that they go within themselves and say, Hey, wait a minute. I feel something for that. I understand this. I wonder what I can do. To me, that underlying issue is mental health. And we do not have mental health. It's most, it's writ most large in our unhoused. That's where you see it the most.

Stephan Dweck: That's a drop the mic moment, Billy.

Beverly D’Angelo: You know, Karen Bass out here is doing that, and what she's doing legislation-wise, instead of making things illegal to do this or that, that will end up with the, you know, thinking that's going to incentivize, the thing that's going to motivate the homeless, like, I don't want to be arrested. I got news for you, a lot of people would be fine spending the night in jail.

Carol Jenkins: Absolutely. Thank you. We should do it again. We should do a seminar, you know, a gathering and whatever.

Beverly D’Angelo: They're going to screen it at the Fort Lauderdale Film Festival in November. They're going to have a screening. And then I think I just got an email that it opens in February. I don't know where. I don't know if there's a theatrical. Do you know?

Stephan Dweck: February 28th, I think it's going to be at, was it Grumman Chinese Theater?

Beverly D’Angelo: Well, is that a premiere or does it have distribution for theaters?

Stephan Dweck: It does. 2,000 theaters. It's going to be a wide release.

Carol Jenkins: You're going to be a big hit. You know, this is… You already have enough organizations signed up.

Beverly D’Angelo: I think this film could be like a one-night-only kind of event where you have an evening with Ashanti, for example, and the film gets screened and then afterwards she comes out on stage. You have a local journalist interviewer. She speaks to it. It could be done with the whole cast. It could be done with the producers.

Carol Jenkins: Yeah, we want to be a part of that. We want you guys to be on the stage too, right? So, thank you so much. You're fabulous, fabulous. Thanks so much for joining us on the Invisible Americans podcast, available wherever you get your podcasts. But we urge you to visit our website for transcripts, show notes, research, and additional information about our guests and their work. That's www.theinvisibleamericans.com. Please follow us on social media and our new YouTube channel. And our blog posts are up on Medium as well as our website. That's www.theinvisibleamericans.com. Jeff and I will see you the next time.

‍