Episode 212: PRIDE Panel | Support LGBTQIA+ Foster Youth | CASA-NYC

Kerry:
For anyone who didn't know we're recording this, and for anyone who's new to CASA, just real quick, CASA stands for Court Appointed Special Advocates. We're a small but mighty volunteer-driven organization providing advocacy for children and youth in the New York City foster care system. And our mission is to make sure young people in foster care get their needs met and their rights protected, and they move out of the foster care system as quickly as possible, hopefully back to their parents whenever safely possible. 

And we are really excited tonight to be able to provide a forum for us all to come together as a community to continue to learn about some of the unique barriers facing LGBTQ+, identifying, young people in the foster care system or at high risk of foster care placement, and to learn about how we can better support them and advocate for them. So we are thrilled to have an incredible panel this evening. I want to note that Kiara Davis, who is on your flyer, unfortunately was not able to join us tonight. But we have our other three incredible panelists, and I am going to introduce you in a second to our moderator. 

I also want to give a special shout out to the members of our Youth Advisory Board, some of whom are here tonight. They are current and former foster youth who advise CASA on our policy and practice, and they keep us on our toes. And so they will hopefully be chiming in. So, with that, I'm going to hand it over to our moderator, Stephen Baker, who is a veteran journalist and producer. In Steve's long tenure at ABC, he was the executive producer of Nightline and created the ABC News Pride Specials. And Steve is now at Candle Media, where he's developing documentary and nonfiction content with projects at A&E, The CW, Vice, and Paramount. So, thank you, Steve. I am going to hand it over to you.

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Steven Baker:
Great. Hi, everybody. Thanks, Kerry. Really honored to be here and lead this really important discussion that we're going to have today. And before I get to our panelists, I wanted to go through just three quick stats just to set the table on how important an issue this is for us to be talking about today. LGBTQ youth, a 2019 study found that 30.4% of youth in foster care identify as LGBTQ, so that's a big and I'm sure growing population. They need support. Those youth who had been in foster care had nearly four times greater odds of being kicked out, abandoned, or running away due to a treatment based on their identity compared to those who were never in foster care.

We're going to dig into a lot of that today, too. And then LGBTQ youth who reported having been in foster care had three times greater odds of reporting a past year suicide attempt compared to those who had not. So, we have an amazing group of panelists today, much with lived experience that we're going to walk through that we all can learn from. And so, I want to start with, I'll introduce them by name, and then I'll have them tell us a little bit about themselves. But just so you can see, we've got Bree Hayes, David Ambrose, and Stephen Gordon. They're on the top of my screen, but just check them out. Bree, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?

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Brieanna Hayes:
Sure, so my name is Brieanna Hayes, and for years, I'm a person who went through the foster care system. For years, I've been an advocate for kids in the system coming up behind me. I've also served as CASA's youth fellow last year. I'm currently a chef, well, I'm a chef who has a business, and my business is tailored towards teaching youth transitioning out of the foster care system how to make meals for themselves. That's a little bit about me, and I'm currently going to school in the fall for audio engineering. So, yeah, a jack of all trades.

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Steven Baker:
Great. Thanks. We're going to get into it with you in a bit. David, let's go over to you. Hello.

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David Ambroz:
You would think after all of the pandemic, I'd figure out how to unmute myself. It's just mortifying. But thankfully, no one saw that. David Ambrose, native New Yorker. I live in Los Angeles. I'm a Scorpio, proud new father. I'm a foster dad and spent 11 years homeless before entering foster care, where I was in delinquency and dependency for different periods of time. I am also an author. So we talked a little bit about that today. And I've been involved in child welfare reform for the better part of 75 years, it feels like. So, glad to be with you today.

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Steven Baker:
Great. Thank you, David. And last but not least, Stephen Gordon.

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Steven Gordon:
Thanks so much, Steve. Hello, everyone. My name is Stephen. He and pronouns. I do want to add to Bree's brief bio. Bri is also a recipient of the ACS Emerging Leader Award that was given to her last October, I believe. So just want to keep giving Bri the props they deserve. So my name is Steven. I am the director of LGBTQ equity at ACS. My job is to ensure that our practices and our policies are affirming to queer and trans youth across the ACS spectrum, which includes child protection, preventative services, juvenile justice, and foster care. I'm a dad to a five-year-old girl. I'm a gay dad to two 20-something men now who call me constantly to ask about advice and life. And now that I'm well into my 40s, I think I can finally provide that wisdom. I'm a Pisces, and I've been doing, I've been working with LGBTQ youth in New York City for assistance involved for 20 years now.

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Steven Baker:
Awesome. Thanks, Stephen. So, we're going to dig into my questions now, but we want your questions, too. So, feel free to put them in the chat as we go through, and probably around 7, we'll switch this over to a Q&A if we don't end up getting to them earlier. So, we can just pop them into the chat whenever they come to mind. But I want to go back to you, Bri. Let's start from the beginning and really just set the table for everybody. What does LGBTQ plus stand for? Why does the terminology keep changing? What should people know about how folks identify now?

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Brieanna Hayes:
So LGBTQ stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer. Forgive me if I forgot one. And there's the plus. The plus basically shines a light on the others, other people that might identify differently. Like for example, you have non-binary, you have, um, What's the other one? Someone might be asexual, someone might be transsexual, someone might identify as pansexual. So I think it just, the plus kind of shines a light on, or just gives space or room for others that might fit under that umbrella, top that umbrella, I guess you could say, topic. 

And it kind of like, basically it gives room for them to be themselves too, or to be a part of that community. And I think it’s always changing, so we put a plus just to, like I said, to shine light and just to give someone who is like myself or who might not identify like myself a space to be in that same community. And like I said, it's always changing. Someone might want to be called Wolf today, and maybe they want to be called Boy Tomorrow, you know? Like, it all depends on how someone feels and how they want to be seen in the world.

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Steven Baker:
So, yeah. And yeah, so along those lines, I mean, Stephen, why don't you talk about the difference between gender identity and gender expression?

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Steven Gordon:
Sure. So, you know, gender for years and years, we thought gender was very binary, you know, male, female, man, woman. But as we've evolved, we also used to think of it as more of a spectrum, you know, like maybe not everyone identifies completely as male or completely as woman. Maybe there's a beautiful in-between. But I like to think of it more as a gradient in regards to gender identity, where oftentimes our male and our female aspects really bleed into each other in a really beautiful way. 

But really, your gender identity is how you see your gender in your soul, in your brain, how you want to be perceived, while your expression really is just how we're expressing ourselves to the world. you know, my gender expression might be with this beard, but maybe some lipstick, some eye makeup, and some nail paint. And I can see my, you know, then that can be how I'm expressing myself. And without necessarily saying what my gender identity is, just what my expression is. Identity is how we see ourselves, how we define ourselves. Expression is how we express ourselves not really to the world.

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Steven Baker:
And when we talk about LGBTQ youth in the system, I mean, talk a little bit about, you know, just reflecting on some of the stats that I share, the difficulties surrounding those youth, sort of what are you seeing on the ground? And then, you know, Bri, I want to get into your lived experience, but I'm just curious if you can elaborate a little bit on, you know, the treatment and the otherness that those youth experience.

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Steven Gordon:
Yeah. And so, you know, I come, from the Runaway Homeless Youth Board originally, where there's always perceived to be a disproportion of unhoused young people that identify as LGBTQ, and that estimates about 40%. When I came into child welfare only about five years ago, actually, we were thinking that it actually might be near that same percentage of about roughly a third of young people, at least in New York City, identify as on the LGBTQI plus spectrum. 

And so, you know, marginalized communities that are in the system are already having a hard enough time. You know, a lot of young people in foster care are coming from homes that might be drug riddled, might have a lot of police involvement, maybe coming from, you know, bouts of poverty, likely traumatized folks. And if we add on the whole idea of also a large amount of people in foster care, young people identify as black or brown, which is another like intersecting identity that we're layering on top of the trauma, on top of being in a system. 

Then if we layer someone's gender identity or sexual orientation, that just gives a huge confluence of just having to deal with a lot of issues. And so I think a lot of young people who identify as LGBTQ that are in foster care sometimes may not have an adult that they feel comfortable or safe with. They may not have an adult where they can fully express who they are which, you know, could lead to feelings of isolation or loneliness or not getting the appropriate services that every single young person deserves, whether that's an affirming therapist or health care that is really applicable to their needs. 

And so, you know, I would say, you know, LGBTQ young people, while we've made so many leaps and bounds just, I'd say, in the last 20 years since I started this work, we have a long ways to go to really educating every worker in how to make a young person feel safe no matter what their identity is, no matter what their sexual orientation is.

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Steven Baker:
Yeah, and I think a big part of that, right, is sharing these experiences. And so, you know, applauding everybody here, because I think part of this movement is really learning, so that when the time comes, you sort of can reflect on these experiences that you're having. Bri is someone who has grown up and faced this firsthand, Bri, what was your experience? And I think really start from the beginning, you know, as a foster youth, did you understand your identity when you were in the system at first? How was that received?

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Brieanna Hayes:
I think I totally understood my identity and my gender expression when I got into the foster care system. I think it was one of the main reasons why I went into foster care. My mother, she couldn't accept me being gay. One of the reasons why I went into care was because of that. And I think my first experience with the system was when I went to the Children's Center at the ACS Children's Center on 28th Street. 

And this is after I talked to a social worker, after I went upstairs and realized that I wouldn't be able to go back outside. There was this woman there, and I think she'd seen my gender expression, and she kind of asked me, instead of asking me, do I want, like, panties, she asked me, did I want boxers? You know, so that was one thing that kind of stood out to me, because it was like, OK, I might not be going home today, but someone cares about how I identify. You know, so that stood out to me. 

The second time I had, um… My experience was with a foster parent, and I think she heard my name, because I had been living in a DRC for about nine to ten months, maybe a year. He asked me if I wanted to go to a group home or a foster home. And I said, I want to go to a foster home because my whole experience had been like institutionalized. Everything was being buzzed through a door, having to stay on a level to earn something. And I remember just feeling like, I don't want to live in a place where it feels institutionalized. I want to be free. So when this woman, they told me that they asked me if I wanted to meet my foster parent. 

And I was like, yes, I would love to meet her before. I go into her home. It had been my first foster home, so I was definitely eager to meet her. And I think because she heard my name, Brianna, she thought I was going to be like this little pretty little girl that was like flowers and butterflies and stuff like that. And when she met me, she was just like, oh, your name is Brianna? And I was like, yeah, I'm Brianna, you know, like unapologetically me. And I think It was hard for her because she was a God-fearing woman. She went to church every Sunday. And it kind of like stood out to me that she never asked me to go to church. I was raised Christian. I was raised in a Christian church all my life. 

So her never asking me to go to church made me feel like it was because of the way I expressed myself or my identity. I've spent, I remember just being having to be like the hard-to-place kid because I was older and I was expressing being gay. And I think this was a little bit before they could have affirming homes. People would deny me a home because I was lesbian or gay. 

And the people didn't want to express to them, like this lady had a daycare center. She didn't want me to live in her house because she didn't want to have to tell the kids why am I a boy or a girl, you know, have the kids ask me why I'm a boy or a girl. So that's been my experience. going through the system. And I think a lot of the times I didn't have places to stay or it would be hard, would be like in the agency, just sitting there because of my gender expression or my gender identity.

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Steven Baker:
And Bri, what were the ages that you were in the system?

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Brieanna Hayes:
I was in the system from age 14 to 22. Sorry.

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Steven Baker:
When the woman who you said went to church, talk to us about some of those conversations or conversations you didn't have at that time. What was that like?

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Brieanna Hayes:
Well, for me, my experience at her home was you have to leave at 6 o'clock in the morning because I'm going to church to Bible study. And realistically, the woman would be boarding a bus to go to Atlantic City to gamble at 6 o'clock in the morning. And I would be outside. I didn't have any, I didn't have a sense of belonging yet. Like I didn't have, I wasn't enrolled in school yet. I wasn't, I was just fresh out of a DRC, a Diagnostic Residential Treatment Center, and I didn't have any connections. The only connection I had was this card. that this lady, because when I was in a group home, there was an organization called Voices Unbroken, and they used to do poetry classes. 

And the woman who did the classes, she gave me a card. And I literally just had this card, and I would have to find my way. One day I had to call her and tell her, like, one day I had to call her and tell her, like, I'm outside. I don't have any food. I'm kind of hungry. I need water. I really just need a metro car so I can find some business. or give myself something to do. And this woman came and she got me, and literally she walked from one side of the Bronx to the other side of the Bronx. 

And when I got to the other side of the Bronx, it was the Next Generation Center, which basically would keep me out of trouble in the mornings. I would go to this place, it opened at nine o'clock, so I would have to kill time for three hours and find a place. You know, just take the bus straight to the center, even if I had to ask the driver for a ride, I would take the bus straight to the center and kind of like spend my time there and kind of like try to like be better in that space rather than being in the just outside. But I realized that the community where I lived at with this woman would take care of me more than she would. Like they would ask me, I think she was known for having foster kids and not being there for them. 

And I feel like the community would often Like, just checking with the foster kids that she would have. Like, so it'd be like, oh, did you eat today? Are you cold? Do you want to stay with me in my house until she finally lets you in the house? Like stuff like that. That was my experience. And I feel like she's never talked to me about going to church. I don't even, I think she just looked at me and was like, no, you don't want to go to church. I wouldn't take you to church with me kind of thing. So, yeah.

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Steven Baker:
Yeah, you said something a minute ago about these weren't affirming homes, and I wonder if everybody wants to put a definition around what an affirming home is. Bri, we can start with you.

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Brieanna Hayes:
Yeah, I think an affirming home is just a home where it's like your sexual identity or your gender preference doesn't matter. Like, I think it's more, say, like, this is your home, this is where you're going to be. And I think the mindset should be, I'm going to make sure you're good until we figure out what the overall plan is for you. Or even if you don't have a plan, I'm still going to be a pillar in your life. I'm still going to be a community parent or whatever it is that I look at you as. And you're there to support me regardless of what I like or who I like or who I want to lay with. You get what I'm saying? stuff like that. That's what I feel like affirming home is just like you being accepting of this child, however they come to you, or with whatever they like, or whoever they like.

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David Ambroz:
David, you want to jump in? Yeah. Second, everything Brie shared, and I would just add the headline of, I don't need your tolerance. I just don't need your tolerance. Kids don't need to be tolerated. I tolerate the traffic in Los Angeles. It's the cost of getting from point A to point B. Kids need just unconditional love, and not just queer kids, but all kids. And it always confounds me that people are confused by that. So I think I just am exhausted by people's tolerance. Kids need love, direction. and guidance. And so that would be an affirming home for me. My sexual orientation shouldn't matter. My hair color doesn't matter. My rather adorable outfit shouldn't matter. It should just be a home affirmed by love and support and direction. So that's what I would add to Bree's kind of more comprehensive and thoughtful answer.

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Steven Baker:
Stephen, coming over to you.

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Steven Gordon:
Well said by both David and Bree. And you know, yeah, the word tolerant really, we should eject it from our vocabulary when we're talking about queer and trans youth, and really the word of unconditional acceptance. Across the board, you know, all foster children have had it rough, have been through a wringer of some sort, and it is our responsibility as adults, me as a worker, as foster parents, to really accept my foster child no matter what their orientation or identity is.

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Steven Baker:
Great. Thanks, Stephen. I want to throw it over to David, who you may know has written a book about his experience. I think, David, you're going to read a little bit of it for us today, just to take us inside what it was like living in New York, homeless, with your family, as an LGBTQ youth. Take it away.

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David Ambroz:
Yeah. So I'm going to read, so I can put it next to my face, read this book. I hear it's pretty good. And it's my memoir, available at your public library, as well as on Amazon. And I'm going to read a part that I usually don't read in the book tour that I've been on. I'm going to read about the first placement I went into. When I went into foster care in the 80s, queer children were considered high risk. And so we were not necessarily put into foster homes. We were put into delinquency facilities. And I was immediately placed into a kiddie jail. And I was 11. And the youngest other kids were in their late teens. So it was a very scary and violent place for me. 

And I'm going to jump right in, but the story is we've just come off my first couple of days there and we go into group therapy with the site's group therapy leader. So with that, I'll just read just two pages and then we can talk more. And I think emotion is a superpower, so you'll hear it and I am super powerful. In the dining room, we sit down with James, our staff supervisor and therapist, in a circle of chairs. The kids sit next to each other, leaving a few seats on either side between them. It feels like I'm the only one here that doesn't know anyone, without a friend, without someone to watch my back. I take an empty chair far away from the others at the end of the curved line. This is your chance to share what's on your mind. You've all been through this before, so let's hear it, the supervisor, James says. 

Miss Ambrose, why don't you start us off? I'm not a miss, I say. Excuse me, the staff person says. You said Miss Ambrose, why don't you start us off? And I'm saying I'm not a miss, I clarify. Voices ring out from the circle. That's debatable, faggot, homo. Being labeled day feels riskier here than anywhere I've ever been. The boys here are on edge, ready to attack any sign of weakness and any perceived difference. And having a staff member call me Miss does not help me. But for some reason, the staff has it in for me. And it's obvious that has something to do with core of who I am. It's not the first time I've been called out as queer. The first time was in fifth grade in the parking lot of PS 22. 

I jumped in to play a game we call ledgy, which involved bouncing a ball off the ledge of a building and pushing kids out of the way violently to catch it. One time, I got bulldozed by another kid and called a fucking fag and shoved to the ground. I've been called names my whole life, but never by an adult in front of other kids, as a staff person is doing now. He is our assigned therapist, but he's an asshole toward me, since the moment we met. I sense that I remind James of himself, and he's angry at me for that. Fag. Homo. They keep taunting quietly. Not quite quietly enough. I look at James wanting him to stop this. He started this by calling me Miss Ambrose, but is he going to let kids here call me these names? Are you going to do anything, I ask him indignantly. 

Can you please skip the drama, he says, and just share something? I'd like to share that I am not a woman, that I am a man, that I have a penis. I'd like to say that he cuts me off. Enough, Jesus Christ, Miss Ambrose, always with the drama, he responds. You did it again, I yell. I am not amiss. He marks me with demerits and sends me to my room without dinner. Everything in this facility is demerits. Upstairs I go and I take a shower. I'm drying off from the shower when I hear the stairs of this building moan and groan under the unwelcome feet of people rushing up them. It's like thunder. Nobody should be on the floor at this hour. 

They should all still be downstairs having dinner. I'm supposed to be safe here, but I sense something is wrong. I'm supposed to be in the protective custody of the state, but after 12 years of abuse, I can smell violence a mile away. I know I'm in serious danger. I slam the room's door shut, still naked. None of the doors in this place have locks, so I push a dresser in front of the door. Moments later, a storm of pounding and hollers rattle the door, the wall, and my very world. What's wrong, fag, the boys taunt. Let us in. The door shakes in its frame. 

I'm still naked, but I scan my environment for a weapon. I try the brass lamp, but it's bolted down. They shout fag this and cocksucker that. There are at least four staff members on the first floor. Surely one of them hears this. They've got to come to my rescue. I scream at full volume, help. My only screams seem to egg the boys on. Eventually the door falls open. I stand there facing them, cupping my penis. Fucking douche running away like a pussy, one of the boys yells, striding toward me. It's the kid I've watched play basketball. I don't know a lot about him. He's usually mellow. I sometimes sat next to him at meals because he's quiet. Look at her, they say, covering up her twat, another one yells, laughing, as he throws me to the ground and kicks me. I yell again. 

Hearing up, I catch a side of a broom in one boy's hand. Tara shoots through me. He walks past the others and kicks me over onto my back. Sitting on my chest, he uses the knee to pin my arms to my side. I thrash and squirm, desperate to break free. The broom is threatening in his hand, the rounded handle pushing toward my mouth and my throat. Facilities like this take a bunch of pubescent boys and isolate us without sex ed, without privacy, without any outlet for self-expression or true therapy to deal with the traumas we have faced. I don't blame the boys that are attacking me. 

I blame the poverty which we are born into. A cycle of poverty of hope, a poverty of opportunity. We are trapped in a cycle of poorly governed public programs, unsafe neighborhoods, failing schools, intergenerational violence, and a social script we are primed to follow as if we have no cognition. Is this what you want? Please don't, I say quietly. Enough, I hear from behind the boys. It's James, the staff member. I see him standing there leaning against the door and realize he's been there for a little while. I wonder if he's egged them on. The boys follow past him, and I sit there on the floor. Clean it up, he says, and for God's sakes, get dressed.

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Steven Baker:
David, thank you so much for sharing that. I don't know if applause is appropriate, but I think it's really important that everybody heard that, and I know how difficult it is to share that. But this is your message, and that's why you wrote the book, and it's a really, really powerful book. In the chat, many people have it and have read it, and I continue to be proud of you for sharing all of that and all the painful detail. But your story is going to help so many people here, and it's helped so many people broadly who have experienced similar patterns of behavior in the system. I wondered, David, if you want to talk a little bit about how you ended up in the system, the journey of your family, and where you found comfort in the end.

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David Ambroz:
Yeah, my family, I was born into homelessness. We lived in New York City for my entire childhood. I was born living, as my family did, at Grand Central Station, in and around and under. And we were homeless for essentially 11 years before I helped place us into foster care. And I always thought foster care was going to be my salvation. And that was my first placement I just read about. Ultimately, I found my way into a rather wonderful foster home that I had a temporary stay with, and they really did remarkable work in helping me on my journey. 

I have shared this story in my book in hopes of motivating people to move from empathy to take action, showing my most vulnerable parts to not just get pity, but to get people to decide to carve some time out of their lives so that children in state custody don't have to grow up like this. It has gotten better, and I have used these stories and my passion to reform things like the treatment of queer children in foster care in our country. And that has been part of my life's work, and I'm proud of that, but so much more needs to be done.

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Steven Baker:
I'm proud of you. And to brag a little bit, you got a special honor from President Obama. Do you want to tell us about that?

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David Ambroz:
Yeah, what a thing, huh? President Obama had a program during his administration where he highlighted what he called American champions, American champions of change. And I was selected by him, by his administration to be recognized for my work, much to do with children in foster care and poverty, but also for the work that I did around queer children. I worked for more than a decade to stop the treatment and curing, if you will, as they used to say, of queer children in foster care. And for that, President Obama and his administration recognized me, and it's been one of the highlights of my advocacy and my life.

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Steven Baker:
Congratulations. That's big. That's big. Bri, I want to come over to you for a second and just for reflections on what David read and if any of that brought up anything from your experience that you wanted to share.

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Brieanna Hayes:
No, I just wanted to say thank you, David, for sharing that. I know it's kind of a lot to get off your chest sometimes. For me, I don't know. I can't really say there's something I want to add, but I know that Our experiences are what makes us beautiful people. And even when it's hard, we continue to be resilient and we continue to shine and kind of like use our experience to educate others or to even empower others. So thank you, David, again for sharing your story.

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Steven Baker:
Yeah, Steve and Gordon, I'm going to come over to you now. David's story is harrowing. I think that a lot has happened since David has been in the system. Talk about some of that, how the training, policies, procedures, what's in place to keep LGBTQ youth safe?

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Steven Gordon:
Well, first, you know, David, wow. Just, you know, wow. And I think hopefully there's healing in sharing your story. And then for us receiving your story, hopefully, like you said, it does inspire people to take action, because I think we could just all sit, you know, like in our comfortable homes, smelling okay, having a safe place to go to sleep every night and just say, oh, that's too bad. I think it goes beyond empathy, like we really need to take action. And, you know, and while I'm about to talk about New York City, I'll be remiss if I didn't talk about how child welfare is really affecting, it's being affected in other states specifically for trans kids. You know, there are other jurisdictions that are making it near impossible for trans youth to receive gender-affirming healthcare. 

And so, you know, I think when we think about action, I think sometimes we need to think about what we can do as people that maybe aren't like myself, who are professionals in this space. And that's really looking at how we can advocate, you know. Texas, Florida, Tennessee, Oklahoma are states that really do have, in my opinion, truly anti-trans legislation, and are really using children as political theater and fodder, and that's absolutely unacceptable. So I think sometimes also, you know, we should really look at how we can really do take action, whether it is, like, in the political realm, whether it's advocating for certain laws and bills to be passed. And so, you know, New York City has is not perfect, and we've come, we've made some steps, we've made some roads. 

And so I can say, as the harbor of a policy, we do have laws in place at the state and city level, and eventually the federal level coming up very soon, where this population is protected in care. ACS, because we're not, because we're the largest child welfare institution in America, we've got a budget that most don't. So there are things that we can, that we've got privileges to do. And one of them is, um, we have a mass LGBTQI training for any staff that works directly with youth across our continuum, whether it's juvenile justice, child protection, and absolutely foster care. 

And in this training, there are actually two trainings. They build upon each other. Workers learn, um, that it is against ACS policy in New York State, so they're allowed to discriminate against any youth because of their orientation or identity. And if there are consequences, if you do not follow these laws and ACS policies, and also workers are taught how to create safe and affirming environments for this population as well. Foster parents are also mandated to be trained on affirming, accepting, and loving a queer trans foster child that they may or may not have. And I actually taught how to talk about sexual orientation and gender identity across all orientations and genders.

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Steven Baker:
Do you want to get a little bit granular on some of that? How do you talk to an LGBTQ youth?

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Steven Gordon:
Well, I think it's so basic, honestly, just at a very basic level. You know, I think with all young people, because we all know who's queer, we all know who's gay. Everyone's a little gay, as Lisa once said. But, you know, we really have no idea. So I think we just, you know, as adults, when we're meeting a young person, we simply say, hey, my name is Steve and I use he, him pronouns. What are your pronouns? What name would you like me to call you? You know, I think a lot of queer and trans young people are may not like the names that they were given by their parents for all the reasons we could probably predict. So I think just starting as like, how would you like me to identify you? What name would you like me to call you? What pronoun would you like? something as basic as that, I think really gives a queer trans young person permission to actually maybe say, or at least know that like, this is an adult that might be safe. 

And I'm going to engage with this adult to see if they actually are safe. So I think those very basic levels, I think, you know, in our offices or in our foster homes, like having LGBTQ paraphernalia is really critical, you know, whether it's like a flag or, upside down triangle. And we at ACS have these stickers and posters that we call a safe and affirming home where you can put it up anywhere, at your desk, hanging up on your wall in your home. So I think like simple things of just like signage and engagement are really the keys to laying that foundation. 

And also I think just, you know, realizing that The LGBTQ youth are not actually very different than a heterosexual teenager or cisgender teenager. They just want to be seen and loved. And I think if you allow young people to tell you their story, and I think that's where we can actually really then connect with LGBTQ young people across the board. You know, tell me about yourself. If you're the expert of your experience, I would love to hear about that. I think something as simple as that really opens a floodgate of trust.

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Steven Baker:
Great. Thanks, Steve. And David, I know you have thoughts about how foster families can help normalize gender identity and sexual expression, especially among foster teens.

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David Ambroz:
Yeah, I think if you don't talk about things, they become scary. So, you know, it's as simple as, you know, having cultural experiences. I had one fantastic foster family, and I remember so specifically, she, my foster mom, Holly, took me to Provincetown with some other young people, and it was the first time I saw happy, healthy gay men. And it wasn't some sort of outing. She took us there camping, and she made sure that when we walked on the boulevard, she acknowledged the humanity of these folks. I think it's, you know, today, I think the progress is much more significant, and the issues have somewhat changed, but are still fundamental in terms of acceptance and inclusion. 

But I think just talking about things can peel back some of the fear I'm rather a candid human being, and so I think talking about things is always the right answer. However, we also have to be informed by the young people that we're meeting and what they've gone through. You know, I am in my, I'm going to shock everybody, 40s, and it took me until my late 30s to come to terms with much of what I shared in my memoir. I think each young person that comes through, even with a tolerant family, is taught a very profound lesson when the media is debating our very humanity and whether or not we should be full, equal human beings and citizens of this country. That lesson is loud and it often drowns out moderate love. So I think we have to be outrageous and loud with our inclusive love and conversation. 

I'm a little bit of a more bold person when it comes to talking about things. I don't mean outing, but certainly talking about these issues as if they're not something scary, negative, or taking young people out to things that are diverse. It doesn't have to be a pride parade, but can you see a play with a character? Can you talk about that play afterward? Is there a film? So I think having experiences can help maybe defang any fear. And then also, don't be passive. What's going on at the school? What are their policies? How are young people being treated? 

And then also locally, what's going on? I mean, we have school board debates here in California, Southern California, where we are debating policies whether or not we're going to forcibly out trans kids that change their gender identity or expression. So not just in your own four walls of your home, but in your community, make sure that you're active and asking questions. Carve time out of your calendar. Do two hours a month of community engagement. And if we all did that, I think it'd be a different country. So those would be some concrete pieces of advice that I would have.

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Steven Baker:
Great. Thanks, David. And just to note, we've got about 10 minutes. Please do put questions in the chat. Don't be shy. We'll come to them shortly. But I want everyone to weigh in on what still needs to change in the system in terms of how LGBTQ foster youth are treated. Where are we going from here? Who wants to kick us off?

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Brieanna Hayes:
I can do it. I feel like in my experience what needs to be changed is the way we support LGBTQ youth, especially the ones experiencing homelessness or, you know, just… I say that because most of the youth that I run into now at my age as someone who's been through the foster care system, these youth either came from the foster care system or got kicked out of their homes because of their gender expression or identity. And I think I wish there was more support. Like, yeah, we have drop-in centers, like California and stuff like that. But I wish there was, like, literally more support for these youth. They come in, they eat, but they still go. They still go out on the streets. 

And they return the next day. But I feel like we should be doing more for them. And especially for their mental health. I feel like a lot of youth that are incarcerated right now, they got incarcerated because they had, like, a mental health episode or, you know, something happened with their mental health that caused them to be locked up. And I feel like a lot of the youth that are in jail right now, they don't have any like resources or any connections to outside stuff that they could probably use. If it wasn't, like, for example, I think about one of my friends who's incarcerated now, who has experience with experiences like has mental health issues, and he got locked up because of that. 

And if it wasn't for him knowing me, he would be in jail or in prison without any resources. So I think just finding like, like different outlets rather than medicine for LGBTQ youth that I can give them, like creative outlets where they can express themselves or like work on their mental health or like, you know, like have spaces where they could be supported in that area. I don't know. I just wish the homeless population overall, in general, it was more support for them. I feel like it just creates more barriers, like it goes from homelessness to prison or, you know, to hospitals to prison. It's just a pipeline. So, I don't know. I just think, I wish there was more mental health resources for LGBTQ youth.

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Steven Baker:
Yeah. Yes. David, jump in.

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David Ambroz:
I think we also have to nourish ourselves in the progress we've made. I think one thing we don't do well as a child welfare community, or queer child welfare community in particular, is we don't necessarily have the public support behind us. And I think that's not because of the stories that are truly there. I think if we express the progress we've made. I mean, I just look back at my years from when I started in foster care to where we are today, where we're even debating some of these things, and that is a light year away from where we began. The other piece is the stories are beautiful. We tend to focus, as understandably, on some of the most troubling aspects, and we should. Those are true. But the other truth is that there's beauty in this community. 

And if we want to get the public to engage their policymakers to change policy on a sustainable basis ever forward, I think we have to nourish the progress ourselves by the progress we've made and also share some of the beautiful stories that have come out of some of the struggle. So I think there's a richness there that we haven't tapped yet, and that is on us to be storytellers with our community. 

And then finally, I would just say the organization behind this is I think coming into focus, but there was a stat put out, I think you shared it earlier, more than 30% of kids in care, foster care, identify as queer, LGBTQ+. If any other group was 30% of a system, there would be a national plan of action. 30% of the clients of the system and there's no, where's the national plan of action? Why are 30, why are we three times the population overrepresented in the system? 

And the stats for, you know, transgender and queer kids of color are even worse. So I think we need to also realize that we are a power in numbers and the system needs all of our allies to need to step up and we need a national plan of action to deal with the overrepresentation of queer children in the system. affirming, but also turn off the tap. What is going on in our communities that's leading to this? And we need leadership on that. We need to organize and not just be this or that, but 30% of a population is a dramatic number. And in that, there's power.

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Steven Baker:
Yeah, David, you touched on the national plan. Is there anything more specific that you want to share in terms of what groups like CASA should be advocating for?

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David Ambroz:
There is so much going on. We have an amazing administration in terms of the allyship. But I think as we trickle down, foster care is a state, as all of us know, state and local administrated system in terms of the implementation. There are court cases that are going to decide whether or not foster parents can discriminate. All that is super important. What I think we should advocate as CASAs in a community is to get out of the debate about whether or not this person or that person should be a foster parent. It's going to change things on the edge. 

Do I have an opinion? Absolutely. But what if instead we had a national campaign and effort to recruit loving foster parents? What if we just did that? We could flood the zone with people that have been informed or exposed. What if each cost in this country had a conversation with 15 people in their life and said, have you considered and got them to a meeting? We would end the need for discriminatory foster homes because we would just simply be overwhelmed by loving, inclusive parents. And we could get out of the debate that the right has set up for us to have, which is to just chew and scream at each other. Let's flood the zone, not with misinformation, but with love and people that are inclusive. 

And we can do that as individuals. CASA are just amazing volunteers that are just insane enough to dedicate their time and energy to someone that's not even related to them. Let's ask them to do just a wee bit more. And then maybe the national organization and state organization to do some of the work to recruit different types of foster parents to step up with love and respect for everyone's already done it. Because if we get into that debate, we're not going to win. We may not lose, but we're not going to win. What if we flooded the zone with love and we can do that? I think CASA is Dumbledore's army, and I think we need to be called to action.

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Steven Baker:
Great. Thanks, David. Stephen, you want to jump in?

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Steven Gordon:
Yeah, so eloquent Bree and David. I'm going to get wonky for a second. I love the idea of flooding the zone with love and I think to do that we also need protections in place. And so, there was a Supreme Court case when I first started in child welfare, which I haven't been too long, probably about two or three years old now, Philadelphia versus Fulton, where the Supreme Court ruled that this foster care agency in Philadelphia could legally discriminate against same-sex couple foster parents. And so, no one was surprised by this verdict, given the current makeup of the Supreme Court. What was so amazing was the flood of, as Dave said, love that came affirming all kinds of foster parents and affirming LGBTQ youth that are in the system. 

And so I do love the idea of looking at where we're coming from, where we've been and where we're going. You know, I think, you know, a lot of young people do enter foster care because of their gender identity and sexual orientation. So that means that we as a system need to provide better resources for families that don't know how to affirm their child. for cultural reasons, for religious reasons, for community reasons. And so really providing community with concrete supports to do that I think is really, really critical. It can really mitigate the number of foster care children, queer foster care, queer children going into foster care. I also think that like workers need to really know how to empathize with queer and trans youth who might be in a difficult family situation and recognize that if, that if a parent is not affirming that the parent is transphobic or homophobic, that that needs to be noted and addressed in like a clear, concrete way. 

And that way might sometimes come down to a removal and entering a child into foster care. And, and finally, I think looking at, looking at what we can do from a local perspective, I think, you know, Whenever there's like a presidential campaign, we get distracted by what that means, what the impotence of a new administration might mean. And I think that can be really overwhelming. So I think we can really look at local factors. It's a great way, it's a great insular way that we can support communities and keep young people safe.

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Steven Baker:
Yeah, I think, you know, what you just said, empathy goes a really long way, right, in terms of understanding where people are coming from. Final question, and Stephen, you sort of answered this just now. It's, you know, what advice or any other final thought you want to share with the group in terms of affirming LGBTQ youth or how they can support them in ways that make them feel safe? Stephen, anything more you want to add there?

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Steven Gordon:
Yeah, you know, I think and David have said, and I'll say it again, just be an open adult. Let young people know that you've got a diverse friend group, that certain communities and ideals and causes mean a lot to you, and that you're a person that loves and accepts all people. because you have been loved and accepted yourselves, I think just really sharing our humanity is a great way to let a youth know that you are a safe adult.

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David Ambroz:
Creed?

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Brieanna Hayes:
Yes, I totally agree. It's like what Stephen said earlier, coming into the conversation by acknowledging what your PGP is and getting them to express what their PGP is. And don't be afraid to educate yourself. If you don't know something, Go look it up, or even ask the youth. They might have all of the information that you need. And also, learn the language that you're supposed to use with youth that identify like me, I feel like. And it's like you said, it's like getting to know a regular person. Just because we're LGBTQ doesn't mean you have to be all super or better to get to know us. Just be yourself. Just be your authentic self and be receptive to me. what I might come with, you know, like, that's it. 

That's all you have to do is to show up as you and be willing to, to be there for me and constantly show up for me, even when I'm wrong, or when I, you know, I overdo it, tell me about that, check me about that, you know, like, I think the problem is that we're used to people writing us down or not showing up for us and I think you also have to look at it like you guys are going to be like you're adults in our lives or adult figures in our lives and you guys are role models so you're kind of like teaching us how to be adults at the same time so I think just show up as you and I think I would say constantly show up and don't take anything personal. Because if I cursed you out, it probably wasn't about you. It probably was the fact that you're the only person in the room that I can trust with all of my stuff and my baggage at this moment. And I'm giving you all of the space or the water that I've been holding and I'm putting it on you. But that doesn't mean I don't expect you to show up tomorrow and tell me about myself. But yeah.

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Steven Baker:
Thanks, Bree. David, something?

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David Ambroz:
My goodness, I would say, you know, I practice yoga, not because I want to do a particular thing, but to stay flexible and centered in my whole life. And I think we need to practice vulnerability and flexibility as it relates to this issue. The moment we make progress, what was that famous Paul Abdul song, two steps forward, one step back? I won't sing it, but you know the song. No matter what we do, we have to keep practicing, because when we make progress, there's going to be another front, and we've got to be ready to take that on, because each time we think we're done or we've made something, it's going to need more. We'll learn more, different issues will arise. Or we'll have some retrenchment. 

So whatever it is, realize that we have to keep exercising that muscle and be ready for an ongoing fight for true and full equality. Whatever issue we resolve, there will be others. So that's what I've realized in my efforts at reform, is the work will never be done. And that's the beauty, isn't it, of advocacy and this work that we're all blessed to do.

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Steven Baker:
Great. Thanks, David. We've got questions in the chat. I'm going to read a few of them right now, and then whoever on the panel wants to jump in, by all means. Our first one, what is the most effective way that we as CASAs should respond when one of our clients, a youth in care, referred to someone who is queer by using a pejorative term? Oof.

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David Ambroz:
That's what I would say. Oof. No, there's probably a more educated answer. You know, when I was an active foster father, you know, I had a kid of color and, you know, sometimes he would use words or his friends would use words and I was, you know, I'm a cisgendered white guy and I was a little confounded by what the right answer or response was. I think I approached it with curiosity and candor. That's how I would approach most things in my life. as opposed to judgment and condemnation, especially with a young person who's learning, I think, how to be and operate in the world. But, you know, there is information you have to share with this young person, you know, that may or may not be safe, may or may not be OK, may or may not help this young person on their journey to achieve everything. So I just approached it that way. And I can't say it was always pleasant, but it certainly, I think, helped raise a wonderful human being

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Steven Baker:
Great. Stephen?

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Steven Gordon:
Oh, that's beautiful. You know, I think, um, you know, young people do create boundaries and structure. And I think, um, stating that, um, my boundary is, um, that is that I don't like to hear that word because it triggers me and this is why it triggers me. This is why that word, um, is offensive to a group of people. So very much what David said, I think like, Educating the young person on what the actual word means and trying to jar out some empathy, like how would you feel someone called you this word, even though you may not go by it, you may not identify, or how would you feel someone called you by some other pejorative that you actually do identify as? I think empathy and education really do go a long way.

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Steven Baker:
Great. Another question, this is a big one. What if the youth, I'm assuming this is a CASA, what if the youth shares that they identify but the foster parent is not affirming? How should we handle a situation like this since it could lead to a disruption in placement?

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Steven Gordon:
I can pop in. So yeah, I think, the protector in me and the worker and father in me want to say, give me the name, give me the address. But I think, I think like coming, and you know, that's a lot of the work that I do, that's kind of like my knee-jerk reaction. And that means like we care. So I think it's not a bad place to actually start. But I think, you know, situations where a young person, if the young person is saying that their placement is not necessarily safe, I do think that as a class of volunteers, you guys really don't have to have that onus, to be honest. I think your onus is to listen and affirm and validate the young person. And I think your duty is then to let the foster care agency know that this foster parent may need some counseling. I think getting youth permission is critical, unless it's dire. And so with youth permission, checking in with that foster care agency. 

And if that doesn't work, whether the young person may not want you to, or if the foster care agency is not being active in figuring out how to deal with the situation, In all seriousness, that's where I come in. And I take issues like this extremely seriously. If we're in ACS or jurisdiction. And that's what my office would look into. And I think what my office does do is we talk to the young person first and let them know what the procedures are. And, you know, let them know that the most important thing is their safety and making any sort of, you know, interruption of placement. And so, for all of you volunteers to be aware that there are very formal policies and procedures in place in New York City that protect young people in this kind of situation where the young person would remain safe no matter how the circumstance, how the situation pans out.

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David Ambroz:
I just want to add, everything he said is probably absolutely accurate and what you should do. What I'm about to say may not be, so listen to him. I often think about what does the best interest of the child mean. In one instance, you may have an openly uncomfortable home as it relates to child sexual orientation, whereas the kid has gone through multiple placements and has a host of other issues, and that this has been the most safe or healthy home, and you're sitting there scratching your head as a casa wondering, you know, is affirmation more important than this being the 24th home when this one seems to be working out otherwise? There's no right answer there, right? Do you cut off your leg or your arm? Both are not great options. 

So I think everything he said is, you know, there's rules, regulations, procedures, follow that. But I also recognize in speaking to many CASAs that they're often faced with Sophie's choice. And it is an uncomfortable and awful situation to be in. Yet you find yourself in it. I think the training cost provides is tremendous. But at the end of the day, when you're faced that moment, right, you have to advocate and articulate. It is an impossible at times situation. I think thinking long term can be helpful. The long-term detrimental impact of being in an openly hostile place for sexual identity or orientation is often under-considered. Kids that identify as queer and non-affirming places are much likely for self-harm. I think we look at immediacy, but I think long-term could help you make the right decision. 

Of course, follow the rules, et cetera, but I recognize that it's sometimes an impossible choice given the other considerations that may be at play. And it's an unfortunate reality that we have to say, you may have to stay in this hostile home for these other reasons, or that's what's better, because what a terrible thing to have as a reality. But of course, follow the rules and procedures in your training, which I'm not aware of in New York.

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Steven Baker:
Great. Thanks, David. I got a note from Carrie, who has a great idea. Want to open it up. We've got some CASAs in the room. If there's anybody here who has experiences advocating for LGBTQs and want to share what you went through, what you had to overcome, what the barriers were, go ahead and raise your hand, and we can open up the floor. If not, I will go on to another question. And this is for everybody. Can any of the speakers suggest any organizations or policies we can support with our time and voices? I'm assuming this is LGBTQ oriented.

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Kerry:
Yes, it is. The question was LGBTQ related.

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Steven Baker:
Great.

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David Ambroz:
Anybody want to? Yeah, I'm glad to start and then create more space and have other set of ideas. I think the right answer is what is of interest to you. I think if I try and make you fit into my size 29 waist, who am I kidding? It's not going to be comfortable if you're not size 29. So what are you interested in? Are you a person who's interested in education? Then go find out what the school district is doing and get more involved in policy issues. Are you more interested in homelessness? 

Great. That's a really important topic. What are homeless providers doing in your community around this issue and are there policies that could help that? I think we fetishize federal at the exclusion and negativity for local. So much of what we need to focus on that impacts the lives of young people that are vulnerable are local policies that you can affect. I'm not saying there aren't federal policies. There are. We're not going to pass anything right now. 

So what can you do locally is something that I think is super important. And given the hyper local nature of foster care in our country, Get engaged in that and then in that find something that interests you if you have to go to the dentist You don't like going to the dentist. You're not going to go to the dentist for long So what is your thing that you like doing or an area you're interested in and find out what policies in that area? And if you're still confounded or confused become a cost or recruit more causes I've had the pleasure of Midwifing at least ten causes in my last three years of this book tour and to a person, they either call me crying or laughing or laugh crying, depending on the hearing that day. So get local. And if you're still confused, you know, do more with CASA. 

Policy-wise, federally, I think we're a little bit, in terms of law, we're a little bit at a hard place. There is cleanup that needs to be done with some of the major legislation that passed about five years ago, Families First, but I don't think it's going to occur anytime soon. And administratively, they're doing a lot at ACS, et cetera. Am I saying that right, ACS, the federal? They're doing a lot already by administrative focus. So, what's going on locally with you and what can you do locally would be what I would advise right now. ACF, thank you.

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Steven Gordon:
I'm here. You know, this is such a good question. And, and yeah, I think it's really about where your passion lies. You know, OCFS, which is ACS, and that's a lot of letters, the state oversight of child welfare will be, at some point, either later this year or early next year, will be implementing a federal rule that states that every single foster home needs to affirm LGBTQ people. And, you know, ACS has had this rule for many, many years. We're doing it. We always can be doing it better. But there, you know, I think there might be some support needed. via the state with the rest of the counties that don't have the ACS infrastructure. I think that's a federal thing that's going to become very local very soon that folks may want to get involved in. 

And being in New York, there's so many really amazing local LGBTQ organizations that do such a myriad and variety of work. Brooklyn Lambda Democrats, like an advocacy political organization based out of Brooklyn. There's Destination Tomorrow, which is a trans social service provider up in the Bronx. There's the LGBTQ Youth Center, which has an amazing youth program located in Manhattan's West Village. 

There's the Hetrick Martin Institute, which is connected to the Harvey Milk High School, which also provides resources for LGBTQ youth in New York City. Queen's Pride House, you know, every borough right now in New York City does have a LGBTQ community center. They're always actively looking for volunteers. And then there are, you know, Child Welfare is very different than the Runaway Homeless Youth World, but I would imagine, I know the Runaway Homeless Youth Providers are always looking for also volunteers as well.

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And, you know, there is a connection to youth homelessness

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Steven Gordon:
So those are some of my thoughts.

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Steven Baker:
Great, yeah, and just calling attention to the chat, lots of great links going in there, so give that a look when you can. We talked a lot about New York City resources. Let's go to the suburbs. How can you support youth out in more rural communities?

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Steven Gordon:
This is such a good question. I think it's, for city slickers, I think it's actually a hard question to wrap your mind around. I've spent my entire adult life in New York City. I will say, though, that, one, there are, in more rural states, we can call them some red states, every state will have an LGBT community center that a young person can be connected to you know, back in the day when, in the 90s, when I was a teenager, I couldn't just like walk up the street to find one. But because of, you know, social media, young people do have access in a greater way. 

And you don't even have to think about like parental controls or anything like that, but young people do have access to universal resources. And so I think putting in people in the direction of looking being able to go on the Internet and find resources near them or just looking at some of these more global resources, you know, like the LGBTQ Center here, ACS funds this, the Manhattan LGBTQ Center. And I know that like during the pandemic, they started having online support groups for free as like one mechanism. So I think that the organizations are really looking at how they can have a broader net by using the Internet.

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David Ambroz:
Get curious. I mean, there's no one stop shop answer to that. You know, I lived in some rural part. They shipped me out of that city and got me to some rural parts of other places. And it was a culture shock. But the one-stop-shop answer doesn't exist. I think the curiosity and active engagement is going to be the answer. You know, rural Massachusetts is different than rural elsewhere, right, or upstate New York is different. So I think curiosity around what we actually mean by that. And many policies are state policies. So while our elected people are elected to represent where they're from, right, us as constituents, they also represent the interests of the state or the Commonwealth in some states' cases. 

So ask your representative, what are they doing on this issue? So, you know, are we protecting queer literature in public libraries? Are we protecting kids' gender identity expression at school so they're not forcibly outed? That can be a state policy, as we're doing here in California. So, A, you know, get curious what's going on in whatever rural area you might be referring to, or suburban. And then B, realize that the people that report to you, elected people, also have a different constituency than you, which is the overall interest of the state, if not the country, and they should be paying attention to not just the people. They have a constitutional responsibility to both the state. and the federal government, wherever they are, depending. So, make sure to hold them accountable. Ask those questions that are there. Boards of education for the state, there's so many different vehicles that you have to, you might choose to, I should say, be engaged in outside of your beautiful paradise of New York City.

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Steven Baker:
Great, thanks David. Another question that's come in, how can we as CASA support identifying youth in residential placements, ensuring that they are safe in residential placements? We sort of covered when they're not, but is there anything more that we can add to the discussion about how to work with that transition and what should CASAs be on the lookout for and how can they help it be an affirming home?

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Steven Gordon:
That's a great question. I think really keeping your ear to the ground of the young people that you're volunteering on behalf of and for is a great start. You know, if you're hearing that young people, if your young person is having an issue, I think there are mechanisms to support them, whether they're formal, going my route, or whether they're more supportive, really being a sounding board for young people. And, you know, I think, you know, group homes, campus settings. Here in the city, we've got like small group homes, large group homes, and large residential campus settings. And those I think are innately just harder to exist in. 

So I think if you do know of a young person who's living in any of those settings that doesn't have a foster home, I think it's really critical that we're checking in and making sure that they're doing okay and that, you know, check in and see if they have a case planner or a case manager that's really working toward their goals, if they're enjoying their living situation, if their roommates are okay, if the residential workers, the overnight workers are treating them appropriately. I do think we need to pay a unique and special attention to young people living in these group settings because I think a lot of young people just get lost with the numbers alone. 

And fun fact, ACS does fund LGBTQ group homes, specifically in foster care. And so that is like if you have a young person who may not be thriving in their current placement because of their gender, identity, sexual orientation, or not thriving in their foster home, while we don't have a million beds for the population. We do have quite a few, and that could also be a potential option for young people.

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Steven Baker:
Great. Thanks, Stephen. Bri, do you want to jump in just as we close out? Just any other thoughts in terms of how CASAs can support LGBT youth in a placement?

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Brieanna Hayes:
I think it's kind of like what Stephen said, just getting to know them, educating yourself on what you don't know. Showing up, being, and asking them, especially asking them about if their placement is okay. That's how you're going to find out if it's in a formal home or not. They're going to tell you like, oh, my foster parent doesn't like me or she doesn't want to deal with me because of my whatever, whatever. You know, like, I think it's about asking questions and showing up and kind of like being observant and honestly being yourself. Like I said before, don't take anything personal. Constantly show up and take care of yourself. Because like David said, this is going to be a constant task, a constant fight. There's always going to be something new that we have to fight for. 

So take care of yourself. Take time for self-care. Take time to incorporate the things that your youth likes in whatever time you spend with them. Like you said, you want to mark yourself as a safe place. So definitely, definitely take the time to get to know, to learn, and like I said, to educate yourself overall. Yeah, that's what I needed when I was in a DRC. I had an outlet to do poetry. I had an outlet to express myself. You know, like, it was just certain things I had that would keep me. 

Even though it was a hard process going through the system, I think having certain outlets to express my creativity or having certain outlets to just express myself. Like I went to Harvey Milk High School, which is a gay high school, you know, and they also had an after school program where we could like do different activities, whether it be voguing or walking the streets. So, you know, like it was a sense of community. So just finding resources and different things that would support your youth, like growth overall. whether it be supporting their mental health, supporting their education, supporting what they love to do. I think that's what your main goal is.

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Steven Baker:
That's a good point, Bray. And David, I'll throw it over to you. How do you support a youth's mental health? Do you want to talk a little bit specifically about that piece of it?

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David Ambroz:
Yeah, I, gosh, I love music and I just want to quote one of my favorite songs. Let's talk about sex, baby. So I think part of what is occurring with queer youth coming up through the system is we've just neutered them. We have looked at budding sexual adolescents and we've pathologized it. And if we're not doing that, then society is. We're not queer because of who we want to have sex with. It's an identity. It's something integral. But who we have sex with is part of it. And so I think we develop issues in our mental health when that identity is conflated with our act. 

But the act is also important. And I think for young people coming up, for example, in the single sex group homes where I spent much too much time, you know, we're in single sex group homes where it's not comfortable or pleasant. We're not allowed to date. We're not allowed to masturbate. Has anyone ever heard the word masturbate and foster care in the same sentence? Kids masturbate. And we don't talk about it. And we pathologize sexual identity. And out of that comes kids who have experienced, some of them, sexual violence. And we expect them to be normal, healthy adults with satisfying lives. And we're shocked. that they're not. I think we have to talk about all aspects of human identity, which include our existence as sexual beings. 

And we're not, again, you know, we're not unique unicorns here as queer kids. We're just young people coming of age. And part of that is an uncomfortable conversation. I don't like talking about people about sex either, but it's something that we have to do. And I think CASAs are uniquely positioned because they are not, they're not being paid. They're earning trust. And with that comes an opportunity, I think, that few other people in the lives of CASA kids have, which is to have uncomfortable conversations. I'm not saying walk up to a kid you barely know and be like, blah, blah, blah, that would be weird. But as you earn that trust, talk about something that no one else talks to them about. I have no idea who's teaching young queer children how to have safe sex. 

And did you all have sex ed? How'd that go for you? So let's be real. Where are kids learning this stuff from? It's not a module. So what can we do as advocates and volunteers in the system within all the rules? I don't know all the rules, but follow the rules. But what can we do as human beings in a system that's overwhelmed with process to identify these young people and say, hey, I realize that part of your identity may not be getting the full love and support it needs. What can I do? Take them to a center. You know, ACS is funding them. Take them to a center for an evening of poetry. Let them stand in front of the bulletin board. You know, whatever it is that you can do to get these young people, I think, more aware and comfortable with that. 

That's one area. We don't have enough time, but I think just hearing the words would be powerful to know. And then wondering to yourself, if I have a queer kid, let's say you have a transgender young person, how are they learning to be safe in the expression of their sexual identity? Did you learn to be safe by going to your sexual ed class at school? How are we teaching these young people? And imagine building that house on top of a foundation that's not secure. That's the foundation you're building on. So how do we fundamentally say to ourselves as human beings, these young people are coming from a rough start. They are who they are at this moment. What can I do? And that question, I think, is going to get you on the right journey. But first and foremost, get comfortable with being uncomfortable. I'm uncomfortable. I don't like talking about the stuff I just read to you. 

But it's so important that we share that humanity. And remember that these are people that are coming of age and they are expressing not just who they are and what they want to wear and their pronouns, but how do they be safe in this world and not get taken advantage of? The number one source of sex traffic, young people in this country are girls coming out of foster care. And the two biggest cities for that are LA and New York. So we have to get uncomfortable. Why is that? Well, part of it is relationships and healthy relationships are built on not just who you love, but also this other part too. 

So I just want to say in a mental health, you know, it was a broad question. I want us to focus on the sexual awakening, adolescence, whatever the right terminology is from sociology of these young people and realize they're coming from a place probably of trauma. And you're building on that. Build nonetheless. Build. Get uncomfortable.

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Steven Baker:
Wow, David, thank you. Lots to think about. And I think that's our time. We're at 729. I want to thank all of you for being here, all the CASAs, all the volunteers, everybody who's helping keep LGBTQ youth safe. I want to thank Carrie and her team for putting together this amazing panel and our great panelists, Bree, Steven and David. And again, there's some amazing resources in the chat, and certainly reach out to Carrie and her team if you have some more questions. Thanks, everyone.

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Kerry:
I just want to say thank you also, TC, for moderating, to our incredible panelists, you guys, for being so vulnerable. We appreciate you so much. And we will be sending the resources that are in the chat out to everyone's email for everyone we have. And, yeah, thank you. Thanks for being here.

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Steven Baker:
Have a great month.

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Kerry:
Thank you so much.

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Steven Gordon:
Take care, everybody.

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Kerry:
Have a good night.

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